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Shan

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#3141 [url]

May 31 17 7:20 PM

Last time I looked, payments were for per page, doesn't matter when they're uploaded. It's really the one Dresden Codak should be using until there are regular fortnightly updates.

You're supposed to designate whether an upload to your Patreon is to be charged to your patrons or not, though.

Detailed completed story page, yes.

Random incomplete sketches and the like, probably be better not to in the interests of keeping your audience on your good side in the long run.

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BoredDuck

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#3142 [url]

Jun 3 17 2:05 AM

Morgaln wrote:

BurtReynoldsMustache wrote:

SmashLampjaw wrote:
I sometimes think Goblins fans treat Hunt like a charity.

 
Given that they are now trying to decide on what to give him as a wedding anniversary present, I'm inclined to think you're right.

I admit I'm tempted to suggest a calendar, so he knows when new pages are due, but somehow I don't think they would appreciate that input...

Add a day planner as well. He could really use one.

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Tobs

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Posts: 87

#3143 [url]

Jun 5 17 12:07 AM

Monday is here again and still no update. Not counting his pathetic, unfinished scribbles, how long has it been since Thunt updated the comic? Anyone have the exact date the last real page was uploaded?

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#3144 [url]

Jun 5 17 2:04 AM

Tobs wrote:
Monday is here again and still no update. Not counting his pathetic, unfinished scribbles, how long has it been since Thunt updated the comic? Anyone have the exact date the last real page was uploaded?

 
I think it was May, 16.

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Shan

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#3146 [url]

Jun 5 17 3:47 AM

IMO, as an external observer to all this (as a non-Goblins reader), as this is a payment per page, this is less of an issue than if someone's promising a page a fortnight if a certain Patreon threshold (say an example picked totally at random of $4,500/month) is met and then proceeds to miss that, let's say 20 times or so since said announcement.

Unless of course these off-cuts, repeats, drafts and pages not up to the standard of story pages are also being charged for as a story page too. In that case, this all becomes a lot more serious and may even leapfrog the above example as that's at least a set amount per month and this isn't if you haven't set your number of times/month you pay per page to rate limit - and even at a limit of 1/page per month, if none are story pages, well then you are out of pocket for at least one non-story page. If none of the alternative pages are any good ... well, that's especially not good is what I'm saying here.

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#3147 [url]

Jun 5 17 4:59 AM

Shan wrote:
IMO, as an external observer to all this (as a non-Goblins reader), as this is a payment per page, this is less of an issue than if someone's promising a page a fortnight if a certain Patreon threshold (say an example picked totally at random of $4,500/month) is met and then proceeds to miss that, let's say 20 times or so since said announcement.

Unless of course these off-cuts, repeats, drafts and pages not up to the standard of story pages are also being charged for as a story page too. In that case, this all becomes a lot more serious and may even leapfrog the above example as that's at least a set amount per month and this isn't if you haven't set your number of times/month you pay per page to rate limit - and even at a limit of 1/page per month, if none are story pages, well then you are out of pocket for at least one non-story page. If none of the alternative pages are any good ... well, that's especially not good is what I'm saying here.

As far as I can tell patreons are not paying for these half-assed strips. Not being a patreon myself, I can't verify, but I seem to recall someone mentioning those were given as rewards for patreons. Is this is true, there are two problems right there (aside from the lack of real updates). First, this is what passes as a reward and second, what should have been exclusive content is being freely given as filler pages.

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Shan

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#3148 [url]

Jun 5 17 5:06 AM

When you as a creator upload a new page, if your payment settings are per page and not per month, you do as a creator have the option to make it a paid post or not.

As a patron, you can cap the number of uploaded posts/month you pay for at 1,2,3, etc right up to uncapped.

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#3149 [url]

Jun 5 17 9:06 AM

Tobs wrote:
Monday is here again and still no update. Not counting his pathetic, unfinished scribbles, how long has it been since Thunt updated the comic? Anyone have the exact date the last real page was uploaded?

It's been a while, and it'll likely be a while, since Thunt hasn't been patting himself on the back recently about how haaard he's working to get the current page done.

(The last four pages were posted, in their final form, on 4/17, 5/1, 5/8, 5/17.)

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SmashLampjaw

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#3150 [url]

Jun 5 17 10:21 AM

Shan wrote:
IMO, as an external observer to all this (as a non-Goblins reader), as this is a payment per page, this is less of an issue than if someone's promising a page a fortnight if a certain Patreon threshold (say an example picked totally at random of $4,500/month) is met and then proceeds to miss that, let's say 20 times or so since said announcement.
Well yeah, it's definitely not as awful as getting money for things you didn't even do. Though I wonder if Patreons have gotten charged for those incomplete comics (e.g. the uncolored ones, the not even completely inked ones).

The problem is more that Hunt keeps promising weekly updates and not delivering. Paying someone $5 per comic and getting 4 per month has a higher value to someone than paying the same amount and getting 4 comics spread across 4 months. Who wants to pay for a story pretty much everyone suspects will never finish? Especially when you know the artist is playing video games instead of working? He also still owes his fans, who bought him a fucking house, the last page of a bonus comic from a 2011 fundraiser. He promised was still totally going to be delivered back in 2013.

.


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Morgaln

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#3151 [url]

Jun 6 17 2:19 AM

So, that makes three weeks in a row without an update, except for those meanwhile sketches that Patreon users had already seen. At the same time, his Twitter is unusually quiet and when he does post, it's about Overwatch. Clearly, he's closing in on another bout of PTSD, probably caused by having his ass kicked in Overwatch. So we should all preemptively express our sympathy and ensure him that skipping your work for several weeks is perfectly fine if you just don't feel like doing something.

Also:


Tarol‏ @Thunt_Goblins · 4. Juni

Hey, do I have a "prepubescent voice"? Guy in Overwatch was convinced I was 11 to 14 years old. Although it might be cause I'm so immature.


Assuming his age is in the double digits is pretty generous, considering he tends to act like a five-year old.

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Kraken

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#3152 [url]

Jun 6 17 7:03 AM

SmashLampjaw wrote:
The problem is more that Hunt keeps promising weekly updates and not delivering. Paying someone $5 per comic and getting 4 per month has a higher value to someone than paying the same amount and getting 4 comics spread across 4 months. Who wants to pay for a story pretty much everyone suspects will never finish? Especially when you know the artist is playing video games instead of working? He also still owes his fans, who bought him a fucking house, the last page of a bonus comic from a 2011 fundraiser. He promised was still totally going to be delivered back in 2013.

 

The person I think has the most cause to be irritated with Hunt is Cheyenne Wright.

I've no idea what sort of agreement exists between them--assuredly not binding with regards to deadlines on Hunt's side. Yet Hunt continues to set expectations of regular updates, once going so far as to speculate the return to his 2/week update schedule. For Wright, this represents real dollars. It also represents time he must budget to do work he's promised to do (should Hunt deliver on his end), and therefore might impinge on his ability to arrange work for other clients. I know several pro artists, and none of them are swimming in ready cash.

Unless Wright is the most sanguine sort of person, Hunt's long delays and "Overwatch therapy" must be quite aggrevating.

Then again, Hunt's reputation for timeliness was hardly a secret when Wright took the job, so to an extent he should have known what he was getting into.

-----

Oh, noticed one more piece of continuity failure on the last actual page. Hunt previously made a big production about how valuable Paladin souls are to the flea demons. Yet when the unoccupied demon has a choice between two helpless victims (Big Ears and Thaco), it goes for the one who is NOT a paladin. Why is this? Who knows. If someone points it out to Hunt, no doubt he will retrofit yet another tortured excuse to explain it as a detailed, critical and complicated part of his lore that of course he had planned all along.

Last Edited By: Kraken Jun 6 17 11:25 AM. Edited 1 time.

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Shan

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#3153 [url]

Jun 6 17 7:27 AM

I would imagine (but this is a total guess) that they've got several different people they're doing work for at the same time and the possibility exits that they can increase the number of completed tasks (payment per completed unit) with them if there's a shortfall elsewhere. Well, that's one possibility.

Alternatively, they did know what they were getting into and precisely because of that, they knew they could handle the extra workload because it wasn't going to be that much extra. Or they asked for a flat fee per week or month or something because of, once again, they foresaw something like this. I'm sure we could come up with even more possible scenarios if we put our mind to it.

Or maybe they've already left this project for all we know. That possibly could happened as well, couldn't it?

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Tobs

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#3155 [url]

Jun 6 17 8:15 PM

Wednesday and no update still. Not even a peep on twitter. Whats going on? Did being accused of having a prepubescent voice drive thunt over the edge and into hiding again? Anyone have any info from over on the goblins forum? Or do they not discuss these lapses to protect his feelings?

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Morgaln

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Posts: 261

#3157 [url]

Jun 7 17 1:40 AM

Tobs wrote:
Wednesday and no update still. Not even a peep on twitter. Whats going on? Did being accused of having a prepubescent voice drive thunt over the edge and into hiding again? Anyone have any info from over on the goblins forum? Or do they not discuss these lapses to protect his feelings?

Basically you're allowed to talk about missing updates as long as you don't say in any way, shape or form that there should have been an update. So you can ask if anyone knows why there is no update, or if there has been a tweet about it. Woe to you if you imply that maybe regular updates that follow the schedule Hunt himself set up might be a good idea or even *gasp" expected. You're then considered a sociopath completely uncaring of Hunt's feelings.


Shan wrote:
Isn't Order of the Stick this sort of thing but with less drama on the production side of things? Or is the drama now a big part of the appeal?

Then again something happened with their Kickstarter too, didn't it if the comments sections are something to go by.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/599092525/the-order-of-the-stick-reprint-drive/comments


I read Order of the Stick because it is a good story with both genuinely funny and genuinely dramatic parts. It's not flawless, but then, what is. I don't mind the irregular update schedule because Rich Burlew never made any pretense to a schedule. He's also not running around proclaiming himself a master of storytelling.

I read Goblins because it's a train wreck and I'm a voyeur. At this point, I can't pretend it's anything else. I also hope I see Hunt's dead body peeking out from under it at some point. Figuratively speaking, of course, I don't wish real death on anyone.

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#3158 [url]

Jun 7 17 2:12 AM

Shan wrote:
Isn't Order of the Stick this sort of thing but with less drama on the production side of things? Or is the drama now a big part of the appeal?

Then again something happened with their Kickstarter too, didn't it if the comments sections are something to go by.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/599092525/the-order-of-the-stick-reprint-drive/comments

Rich said himself he still owes his backers a few rewards from five years ago and he's still slowly delivering (which obviously takes time from the comic). As far as I can tell (and I absoluytely refuse to sift through the entirety of the comments), most are cool enough with it (some complaints, but no rage and drama) and there is just one guy raging about the updating speed and about how Rich can't cope with his commitments and a raising a call to arms (seriously), urging people to write to newspapers to "investigate" Rich for his conduct. Maybe if someone digs a little more we'll find he made a feel calls to the FBI. There is also one guy in the forum (maybe its the same) that had more or less teh same complaints and said Rich should just quit because he has time to sell merchandise, but not to update the free comic. 

There has always been some angst and drama, but it's never been a huge part of the whole thing. One reason is drama posts are swiftly locked, but also because the story keeps churning foward and Rich doesn't make "pity me" posts all the time (or at all), like some other struggling artists we all know.
 

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SmashLampjaw

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#3160 [url]

Jun 7 17 3:31 PM

Kraken wrote:
The person I think has the most cause to be irritated with Hunt is Cheyenne Wright.

I've no idea what sort of agreement exists between them--assuredly not binding with regards to deadlines on Hunt's side. Yet Hunt continues to set expectations of regular updates, once going so far as to speculate the return to his 2/week update schedule. For Wright, this represents real dollars. It also represents time he must budget to do work he's promised to do (should Hunt deliver on his end), and therefore might impinge on his ability to arrange work for other clients. I know several pro artists, and none of them are swimming in ready cash.
It makes me wonder if he looked into Hunt before taking the job. I mean, how much of a background check do you do on a guy offering to pay for your coloring work? Hunt can be very convincing to people who don't know him for long.
.
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Kraken wrote:
Oh, noticed one more piece of continuity failure on the last actual page. Hunt previously made a big production about how valuable Paladin souls are to the flea demons. Yet when the unoccupied demon has a choice between two helpless victims (Big Ears and Thaco), it goes for the one who is NOT a paladin. Why is this? Who knows. If someone points it out to Hunt, no doubt he will retrofit yet another tortured excuse to explain it as a detailed, critical and complicated part of his lore that of course he had planned all along.
Obviously should-have-been-chief souls are even more precious to demons if the paladin is incapacitated.
.
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BurtReynoldsMustache wrote:
There has always been some angst and drama, but it's never been a huge part of the whole thing. One reason is drama posts are swiftly locked, but also because the story keeps churning foward and Rich doesn't make "pity me" posts all the time (or at all), like some other struggling artists we all know. 
I'll second that. What's funny is some years ago Hunt's fans were defending Hunt's terrible delivery rate by saying "at least he's not Rich". That same year OotS easily outpaced Goblins.

.


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