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Kraken

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#3161 [url]

Jun 12 17 7:51 PM

And nearly a month after the last update, Hunt finally posts his next page.

Whuf.

Hunt-style fight choreography is such a headache. If anyone can translate what the hell is supposed to be going on with Minmax and his magical teleporting sword, I'd be curious. Since both of his arms are pinned, I'm not sure why teleporting the sword from one hand to another helps. Hunt sure loves the sword-teleport, though, and contrives to use it whenver he can.

I also love how a convenient partial wall appears just so Complains can do a rebound jump, then vanishes because Hunt cannot be arsed to draw backgrounds these days. 

Narratively, this is as bungling as ever. It matters very little what Minmax and Complains are doing, since we can take it as a given they're a match for their punk-ass foes and should be able to handle themselves. The main narrative point is what Fumbles is doing (to the extend there is any point to Goblins at all right now, that is). So cutting away in order for Hunt to indulge himself in a shittily-drawn fight scene is pointless... especially in light of the glacial pace of Goblins these days.

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#3162 [url]

Jun 12 17 9:55 PM

He's not even grabbing the sword with his other hand, he's just re-grabbing it with the same right hand.  For no apparent reason this causes the demon to let go of his arm to somehow allow Minmax to backhand the demon's second face off?  What?


Then Complains does his whole terribly depicted acrobatics routine for no apparent reason, just to end up in exactly the same pose two steps forward from where he was.

I love Minmax in the last panel, though.  I don't know if Thunt was going for foreshortening or if he's supposed to be hunched over or what the hell, but he just looks like his torso is half the height it's supposed to be.

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#3163 [url]

Jun 12 17 10:24 PM

The Tusken wrote:

Then Complains does his whole terribly depicted acrobatics routine for no apparent reason, just to end up in exactly the same pose two steps forward from where he was.




 

I think he's scumming the "executing a successful tumble adds +1 to the sword for the rest of the battle" enchantment. You can see the second slot on the sword light up as he rebounds off the wall. That's the only thing on this entire page I was able to decipher. What a mess.

Edit: Someone on the forums managed to figure out the sword thing. Minmax lets go of the sword and his future self pulls it through the portal. The demon lets go of Minmax's arm (the one that was originally holding the sword) and tries to grab the sword as it goes through the portal. Minmax moves his newly freed hand across his body to the left, grabs the sword, and swipes it back to the right across the demon's face. All of which raises the question of why the demon would try to grab the sword in the first place when it already had Minmax immobilized.

Last Edited By: BlueAmaranth Jun 12 17 10:33 PM. Edited 3 times.

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Morgaln

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Posts: 261

#3164 [url]

Jun 13 17 2:22 AM

Kraken wrote:
And nearly a month after the last update, Hunt finally posts his next page.

Whuf.

Hunt-style fight choreography is such a headache. If anyone can translate what the hell is supposed to be going on with Minmax and his magical teleporting sword, I'd be curious. Since both of his arms are pinned, I'm not sure why teleporting the sword from one hand to another helps. Hunt sure loves the sword-teleport, though, and contrives to use it whenver he can.

I also love how a convenient partial wall appears just so Complains can do a rebound jump, then vanishes because Hunt cannot be arsed to draw backgrounds these days. 

Narratively, this is as bungling as ever. It matters very little what Minmax and Complains are doing, since we can take it as a given they're a match for their punk-ass foes and should be able to handle themselves. The main narrative point is what Fumbles is doing (to the extend there is any point to Goblins at all right now, that is). So cutting away in order for Hunt to indulge himself in a shittily-drawn fight scene is pointless... especially in light of the glacial pace of Goblins these days.

This, so much.

The whole action around Minmax is confusing and makes no sense at all. It took me a bit to figure out why it was bothering me so much, even after I realized what was supposed to happen (thanks for that, BlueAmaranth). Even if we assume that the demon let go of Minmax' arm to try and grab the sword, Minmax would still have to reach over to the left, grab the sword and pull it to the right to strike the demon. That is not happening at the same time the demon is grabbing for the sword, it has to happen afterwards because the demon needs to let go before Minmax reaches over. But Minmax is suspended in mid-air, held up by the demon at least three feet above the floor. The moment it lets go, Minmax should drop down sideways, only held up by his left arm. He shouldn't be in any position to perform a horizontal strike across its face, even if he lands on his feet.

As for Complains, last we saw these two they were in the center of this huge room; there shouldn't be a wall anywhere nearby to conveniently bounce off of.

In the last panel, Minmax is supposed to be leaning forward, just like Complains is. It's of course meant to highlight how similar the two are, despite being rivals, just in case anyone hasn't realized yet that Complains is supposed to be the foil for our protagonist.

Also, this shit is what took four weeks to create? If anyone still doubts that Hunt has not been working to his full capacity, this is certainly proof.

Last Edited By: Morgaln Jun 13 17 2:30 AM. Edited 1 time.

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Goat

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#3165 [url]

Jun 13 17 3:44 AM

Oh for goodness' sake.

There's not much to say here that hasn't already been said. It just feels cruel or pointless at this rate to note any anatomical problems in Hunt's work, but the design of the back of MinMax's armor looks so much like the front breastplate, that'd be impossible to tell it is his back without seeing which side his limbs are facing. I can't even grasp MM's fight sequence without reading your explanations. If Minmax can teleport the sword, why didn't he just-

image

Last Edited By: Goat Jun 13 17 3:54 AM. Edited 2 times.

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Morgaln

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#3167 [url]

Jun 13 17 4:41 AM

Goat, we've missed you! I hope that means your health is better?

In fairness, Minmax can't really teleport the sword like that. Roughly speaking, when he lets go of it, he will be able to grab it again from any position and swing from there, but he can't stab through one of those holes. It's pretty stupid, to be honest, but so far it has at least been somewhat consistent in that regard.

What Minmax should have done in the situation would have been to kick the demon in the thigh. With how brittle the things seem to be, that would likely have shattered the bone and make the demon collapse. It's easier to do, doesn't depend on the demon to react in a certain way, is less awkward and confusing to show, and should come naturally to anyone who is in this kind of situation (admittedly, the first thought would probably be a kick in the balls, but the demons don't have those). But no, Hunt has to go the extra mile to make things stupid.

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Goat

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#3168 [url]

Jun 13 17 7:08 AM

Morgaln wrote:
Goat, we've missed you! I hope that means your health is better?

In fairness, Minmax can't really teleport the sword like that. Roughly speaking, when he lets go of it, he will be able to grab it again from any position and swing from there, but he can't stab through one of those holes. It's pretty stupid, to be honest, but so far it has at least been somewhat consistent in that regard.

What Minmax should have done in the situation would have been to kick the demon in the thigh. With how brittle the things seem to be, that would likely have shattered the bone and make the demon collapse. It's easier to do, doesn't depend on the demon to react in a certain way, is less awkward and confusing to show, and should come naturally to anyone who is in this kind of situation (admittedly, the first thought would probably be a kick in the balls, but the demons don't have those). But no, Hunt has to go the extra mile to make things stupid.

Shan
Goat's just posted! Let there be Goblins fan art Let there be Goblins fan art Let there be Goblins fan art ...

YES!


Shan: Fan is a strong word, my dear.

Morgaln: I missed you guys too! <3 My PC was out of commission for a long while and I had absolutely no time for the internet during half year animatronics internship, but sadly that came to a close with poor health. It's comparitively better, but it's still giving me a hard time. I'm compiling a decent backlog for my comic as best I can before going public again, and I'll be posting here more often when I can too!

Oh oops, redundant panel is redundant - but if he gave the sword some looser rules he could really figure out some cool ways for Minmax to use the thing. Even if my panel doesn't count, the existing one still doesn't make sense and is so unreadable. I assumed it could teleport back into existence blade-first.. I'm not even going to try to understand that rule system - I can't take any of it too seriously any more, it's like critisizing a child's story being ad-libbed on the spot, or the work of a severely mentally handicapped person - it's pointless and it doesn't feel right. He's certainly not going to change. It takes a lot of effort to remind myself this is in fact the life works and legacy of a 40something year old with kids of his own. He can't even keep one page of combat elligible.
 

Last Edited By: Goat Jun 13 17 10:34 AM. Edited 2 times.

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Kraken

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Posts: 483

#3169 [url]

Jun 13 17 8:39 AM

BlueAmaranth wrote:

 

I think he's scumming the "executing a successful tumble adds +1 to the sword for the rest of the battle" enchantment. You can see the second slot on the sword light up as he rebounds off the wall. That's the only thing on this entire page I was able to decipher. What a mess.

Edit: Someone on the forums managed to figure out the sword thing. Minmax lets go of the sword and his future self pulls it through the portal. The demon lets go of Minmax's arm (the one that was originally holding the sword) and tries to grab the sword as it goes through the portal. Minmax moves his newly freed hand across his body to the left, grabs the sword, and swipes it back to the right across the demon's face. All of which raises the question of why the demon would try to grab the sword in the first place when it already had Minmax immobilized.

That's... incredibly dumb. And it doesn't come across at all in the panels, what with all the confusion of motion lines and awful perspective choice.

Yes, I also love how Minmax's battle cry seems to have squashed his torso down to half its normal size. I also get a chuckle out of the way the flea demons are averting their non-existent eyes from the oh-so-impressive battle aura of the PCs.

Hunt has made the flea demons into profoundly unthreatening creatures. We know Minmax was in no danger, even when held in that iron cross pose (how did that happen, anyway?). The demon's next move would have been to toss out its "Give me your soul!" sales pitch. His greatest peril would come from being bored to death.

And we have a coloring error from Wright too, just as a little proofer's bonus. In Panel 1, the texture/color of Complains' furry arm is exactly the same as the background wall. Or maybe Hunt will retcon a complicated reason for this, and tell us that the arm fuzz has chameleon properties, which Complains can then utilize in some contrived combat maneuver. Joy.

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SmashLampjaw

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#3170 [url]

Jun 13 17 1:05 PM

Kraken wrote:
And nearly a month after the last update, Hunt finally posts his next page.
I particularly like the first panel where Minmax takes on a Goblins version of the Crucifixion of Christ. It's a subtle reminder about how Hunt suffered and died for our sins.

As for the last panel, I can't believe you guys are complaining. It's just a rendition of the IME, which Hunt explained in excruciating detail is symbolic of some event in the character's life that becomes bigger and more detailed as they become more powerful. YOU STUPID PEASANTS, OBVIOUSLY IT'S A REFERENCE TO... to that time... uh... when Minmax and Complains both fought a dragon? together? ... and got over their differences?

...

Well maybe the fight itself was just super critical to their development and that's why... um... the fight with this dragon? uh... definitely happened? Since it's just the tail maybe it was a really big dragon they couldn't even see the ass end of from where they were? Wait, maybe that's a giant scorpion tail from that time... shit... uh... no.

Okay, I haven't played Overwatch, so is that thing from Overwatch? Because going by Hunt's twitter that shit would be in his IME if that was a real thing and everyone in the world didn't call it an aura already.

.


Issues composing posts in Yuku's editor?  See this guide to using BBCode.

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#3171 [url]

Jun 13 17 5:24 PM

Even if Minmax can't stab through the portals, Goat's art gives me the idea that he theoretically might be able to grab the hilt of the sword from right in front of the demon's face, causing the portal to appear inside its head and allowing Minmax to pull the blade through the head or maybe just shake it around in there.

I actually think Oblivious is a really fucking cool concept. I wish it had been invented by someone who could do it justice.

Last Edited By: BlueAmaranth Jun 13 17 5:30 PM. Edited 1 time.

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Swiftbow

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#3173 [url]

Jun 13 17 9:25 PM

Also of note: Minmax's left hand is bigger than his head (and almost as big as his torso) in panel 1. It also does not appear to be any closer to us, so it's not a perspective thing.

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#3174 [url]

Jun 14 17 12:36 AM

SmashLampjaw wrote:
Yeah, Hunt's actually a pretty solid idea man who sucks at execution.

ya that sounds about right

I mean, the lore he's set up is generally really interesting. The twist about the prison axe was quite original, and the the trap design, dungeons and bad guys he comes up with are equally original

but his execution... ya no.

Maybe he shoould stick to script writing, and then have someone else illustrate the comic?

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Tobs

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#3175 [url]

Jun 14 17 2:41 AM

Holy shit! The new pageis glorious!! We start out strong with the crucifixtion of Thunt before moving on to pointless and physically impossible fight movements that no one can understand before coming to climax in a delightful explosion of colour and noise that manages to not only mangle our protagonist's body but also the very laws of the universe that Thunt himself set down. THIS is this top quality excrement that i come to goblins for every week.

I love how Names lerforms that pointless shitty flip that only carries him foward 2 feet, i love how minmax switching his sword from his right hand to his right hand somehow allows him to attack the harmless flea demon. I love how Names was movibg away from the suspended minmax but is somehow back to back with him again in the next panel.

This incoherant, poorly executed turd of a comic is awesome. In later years I hope that it is regarded as "The Room" of webcomics. It deserves no less.

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Kraken

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Posts: 483

#3177 [url]

Jun 14 17 9:25 AM

webkilla wrote:

SmashLampjaw wrote:
Yeah, Hunt's actually a pretty solid idea man who sucks at execution.

ya that sounds about right

I mean, the lore he's set up is generally really interesting. The twist about the prison axe was quite original, and the the trap design, dungeons and bad guys he comes up with are equally original

but his execution... ya no.

Maybe he shoould stick to script writing, and then have someone else illustrate the comic?

I'm partway with you here. But his execution in script writing is as bad as, or worse than, his art. The awful pacing, the info-dumps, the continuity lapses, and the generally head-scratching dramatic choices are all the fault of poor writing, not just art and layout. Hunt could use critique, editing, and multiple drafts to get his scripts into good shape before he starts committing them to the page.

Further, in terms of being a solid idea man, I can agree up to a point. He is indeed good at the things Webkilla pointed out. He's even got a flare for creating characters you can get attached to. Yet when it comes to what we might call "big ideas," I find him to be excruciatingly childish.

As an example, his take on the nature of "good" and "evil" in his world is dreadful, simplistic stuff... the more he reveals, the more his puerile philosophy detracts from what is fun and interesting in Goblins. And the underlying conceit of Goblins as existing within the game world is so poorly thought-out and so ham-handedly executed that it continuosly destroys the potential tension and reader investment in the tale.

This is to say nothing of his attempts at comedy. Does that fall under "idea" or "execution?" Something of both. Comedy is very subjective, of course... still, I find the humor in Goblins is much, much more "miss" than "hit."

Indeed, it is Hunt's failings as a writer that lead me to believe Goblins is unsalvagable, and what we're watching right now is the slow onset of dramatic rigor mortis.

Last Edited By: Kraken Jun 14 17 9:28 AM. Edited 1 time.

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#3178 [url]

Jun 14 17 11:38 PM

ya but that writing would probably work fairly well if it was all just in writing

Going from written form to comic is not easy - you can't just write dialogue when making a comic script. you have to write actions, things people do - and considering how simplistic and words-words-words the comic tnes to end up, then... ya - he's not good at making that transition

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SmashLampjaw

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#3179 [url]

Jun 15 17 8:44 PM

Kraken wrote:
Further, in terms of being a solid idea man, I can agree up to a point. He is indeed good at the things Webkilla pointed out. He's even got a flare for creating characters you can get attached to. Yet when it comes to what we might call "big ideas," I find him to be excruciatingly childish.

As an example, his take on the nature of "good" and "evil" in his world is dreadful, simplistic stuff... the more he reveals, the more his puerile philosophy detracts from what is fun and interesting in Goblins. And the underlying conceit of Goblins as existing within the game world is so poorly thought-out and so ham-handedly executed that it continuosly destroys the potential tension and reader investment in the tale.

This is to say nothing of his attempts at comedy. Does that fall under "idea" or "execution?" Something of both. Comedy is very subjective, of course... still, I find the humor in Goblins is much, much more "miss" than "hit."
I'd call most of that execution. When I say he's an idea man... the term refers to someone who is great at coming up with new things in the abstract. Like someone who can guess something that could exist and would sell even if they lack the education or skill to actually create that thing. Goblins was a very creative comic at the abstract level for a while. Getting down into the execution, with writing dialog and actually fleshing out the the twists and turns of the story or the neat world-building concepts or the bits of lore that aren't ridiculous? That's where things tend no to work.

.


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#3180 [url]

Jun 15 17 11:10 PM

that's what I meant with Thunt having issues going from ideas and overall story - "they go here, see this, this is awesome" to the nitty gritty of script and dialogue

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