Remove this ad

avatar

Kraken

Forum Leech

Posts: 483

#41 [url]

May 13 15 1:11 PM

courage136dog wrote:
my draft was really poop wasn't it. i didn't actually rush to join, i've just known about it for 4 years, and i've only read a couple of reviews, and most of them were kind of funny, some were weird. i made a lot of mistakes with my draft, it was really bad, and i haven't really known about burgeroise until a week ago when i stumbled upon this

Most first drafts are lousy, especially if you're new to a given process. Don't let it get you down. I think there's some good advice for you in this thread if you still want to take another shot at the review.

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
avatar

Sindy

Living Spambot

Posts: 833

#42 [url]

May 13 15 1:20 PM

If you don't think you can or want to make it proper, I can expand on your points as well as add others.

Like I said, the main thing is that revenge or angry reviews end up deleted or completely rewritten by another person because the bias is obvious. This is the case here too, you did focus a lot more on the SJW part than anything else. So if you want help I'm sure I or someone else can, and if you simply want more time to think, no one is rushing you. Just don't rush yourself, either.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Kraken

Forum Leech

Posts: 483

#44 [url]

May 15 15 8:59 AM

courage136dog wrote:
okay i fixed it http://pastebin.com/g9dafsWQ

You're moving in the right direction, though your writing is still very rough. One thing you do to make your writing unnecessarily tough to read is that you don't start your sentences with capital letters. I'd suggest going back and doing that, as well as breaking up your paragraphs a bit more.

There's a lot to talk about and I hope others will chime in. Right now I'd like to just focus on the bio. Here's what you've got now:
.
Author Biography -Ivy Jade is a SJW, plain in simple, I honestly don't know what to write here because she doesn't seem like a bad person at all. In fact I think she's kind of cool, but her comic isn't, her comic is poorly written and is aimed at a audience where almost everyone whines about trivial subjects.


First off, you may want to drop the SJW thing. I feel like that term has just about reached its expiration date for usefulness, and it's applied so haphazardly that it communicates almost nothing. From my own understanding of what it means, I don't think Ivy Jade actually comes across as an SJW in her writing. To earn that term, I think, she would have to include strawman villains representing everything she disagrees with in order to make her points (see Sinfest as a perfect example). I haven't seen any evidence of any antagonists in Computer Love.

If you do want to use the SJW label, then I think you should define what it means to you and offer examples of why Ivy Jade earns it. I don't think being trans (which she is) and trying to talk about your experience through fiction automatically qualifies you as an SJW.

Here's something that I think can be useful in your review. This is the most thorough description I could find from Ivy Jade in her comic about what it's about and why she's writing it. It's from her Patreon page:
.
Ivy Jade wrote:
Computer Love is a story about the everyday lives of queer young adults and their relationships with each other in a futuristic colonized Antarctica.
It can be best described as a slice of life story in a science fiction setting, with a good mix of drama and comedy.

Computer Love is a very personal project to me, and its something I've been planning for around two or three years. I even picked up drawing for the sole purpose of doing this comic!
Science Fiction is a genre I have a very deep affection for, but I've always felt it was lacking when it came to LGBT characters, or even just women in general. As a transgender woman its almost impossible to find characters I can relate to in scifi. What I've always wanted to see is smaller scale and more personal stories in science fiction settings, so with your help I can make this comic the best it could possibly be!


Now, I think these motives in and of themselves are very relateable. There's nothing "SJW" about wanting to write your own story in a given genre with characters you identify with. And being interested in "smaller scale more personal stories" is actually a good guiding direction for an author, I think.

The problem with Computer Love is that she's not meeting her own goals very well. For instance, it's fine to want to focus on LGBT characters in a science fiction setting. But it's not fine to make all characters LGBT with no explanation--this is a minority population in every existing demographic, so it's incumbent upon an author to provide a reason why every character in her story ends up being LGBT.

Also, it's fine to want to write more personal stories, but to do that successfully you have to make characters that your audience cares about. So far, it seems like her characters are very one-dimensional, so the personal stories are just going nowhere. She wants Computer Love to be a "good mix of drama and comedy," yet from what I've seen there's no dramatic tension and not really much comedy. So I think you could refine your review by reiterating her stated goals and then demonstrating by example and analysis why she isn't pulling them off.

Anyway, I don't want to go on forever. Hope this helps you with your next draft.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Sindy

Living Spambot

Posts: 833

#45 [url]

May 15 15 1:57 PM

Bit better, still needs some editing, especially grammar, but definitely better than your first draft.

Also, because this irks me,

paraphrasing whatsherface wrote:
No good queer characters in scifi!!1!


I always get the feeling SJWs don't even fucking try. They bitch and moan about no queer or good female characters in x media yet I can find plenty. Sure, not in every work, but they're a minority irl too. Then this no queer characters victim play is used for pity points and as a reason to claim they're gonna write the bestest ever queer story, and it always ends up exactly like this - bland and utter shit. I'd rather just go on reading about straight privileged white males.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

plarblman

Living Spambot

Posts: 1,167

#46 [url]

May 15 15 7:06 PM

I agree with Kraken, as much as I like to harp on "tumblrinas" nothing about Computer Love is specifically SJW. It is very hugboxy and is very much fixated on LGBT melodrama, but other than that it doesn't toss around buzzwords or incite hateful ideas (i.e." kill all men", "die cis scum", etc). That's why I said "tumblr comic" rather than "SJW comic" like something Dave Willis or Aaron Diaz would write, its more about pandering to insecure teenage girls than to radical ideologues.

Quote    Reply   

#48 [url]

May 16 15 1:36 AM

Sindy wrote:


I always get the feeling SJWs don't even fucking try. They bitch and moan about no queer or good female characters in x media yet I can find plenty. Sure, not in every work, but they're a minority irl too. Then this no queer characters victim play is used for pity points and as a reason to claim they're gonna write the bestest ever queer story, and it always ends up exactly like this - bland and utter shit. I'd rather just go on reading about straight privileged white males.



Would that make being able to tell a story white privilege or make privilege?

I know some black women that are good at writing short stories too.

Maybe that means being able to write a story is talent privilege. XD

_____________________________________________________________________

People have a common defense mechanism they employ to defend themselves from the threat of contrary viewpoints. This shield they wield is the act of dismissing such contrary viewpoints by arbitrarily undermining their validity.

Quote    Reply   

#50 [url]

May 16 15 2:48 PM

Looked at Courage's second draft.

Having read the comic myself I think you're oversimplifying the writing and there's an outright lack of an art section.

I'd drop all the sjw references myself. Yes her tumblr oozes of such things but the comic doesn't really.

Just send like another "Must get media coverage for x minority" comic that's poorly done. Though I find the term minority to be a poor choice of words myself since there is no real global scale majority demographic.

_____________________________________________________________________

People have a common defense mechanism they employ to defend themselves from the threat of contrary viewpoints. This shield they wield is the act of dismissing such contrary viewpoints by arbitrarily undermining their validity.

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
avatar

Sindy

Living Spambot

Posts: 833

#51 [url]

May 17 15 12:00 AM

Whites would probably be a majority if spaniards didn't decide they're a different race, at least in US. I think East Asians win in this case.

Anyway, yeah, I think there could be more about the plot and characters as well but I'm sure that can be edited by others, don't know of any review that would be solely written by one guy.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Kraken

Forum Leech

Posts: 483

#52 [url]

May 17 15 7:00 AM

Horerczy wrote:
Just send like another "Must get media coverage for x minority" comic that's poorly done. Though I find the term minority to be a poor choice of words myself since there is no real global scale majority demographic.
 

Well, that depends. If you're talking about sexual orientation, then yes, there is. Heterosexual is the clear majority globally. Similarly with gender identification, the clear majority identifies with the gender they were born with. And these are the two breakdowns Computer Love seems most concerned with.

Quote    Reply   

#53 [url]

May 17 15 9:18 AM

True an in that we see what largely makes the comic bad. People are more than their sexuality.

_____________________________________________________________________

People have a common defense mechanism they employ to defend themselves from the threat of contrary viewpoints. This shield they wield is the act of dismissing such contrary viewpoints by arbitrarily undermining their validity.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Kraken

Forum Leech

Posts: 483

#54 [url]

May 18 15 6:54 AM

Horerczy wrote:
True an in that we see what largely makes the comic bad. People are more than their sexuality.

Precisely. While I don't think it makes someone an "SJW," it's a very myopic viewpoint to suggest, as Ivy Jade does, that she can't identify with characters who aren't LGBT. As if a character's gender and who they like to sleep with are the only things that make them relateable.

If that was the case, no one could ever identify with someone of the opposite sex. And it would be impossible for anyone to identify with characters like Frodo or Worf--after all, none of us is a Hobbit or a Klingon, so how could we possibly relate to such a person? The flaws in that viewpoint are pretty glaring.

This isn't to say it's a bad thing to strive for diversity, but it's why Ivy Jade's characters are dull as shit. She's too fixated on gender/sexuality to figure out what makes a character come to life.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Sindy

Living Spambot

Posts: 833

#55 [url]

May 18 15 12:20 PM

That argument is pretty popular with SJWs sadly, and it makes them seem like they have zero empathy. Which it quite often seems they do when they cheer when a white male loses his job or dies or whatever. But i prefer not to dwell on it because then I get really sad.

So I'll dwell on them failing so bad at creating good characters. They only care about the race and gender identity, indeed. I've never found a character in fiction that is 100% me and only one that is sort of my gender identity so to say, and I still enjoy a good story with a good character. Not these guys though. They can't if it's not their self insert god damn it. And it speaks a lot about them if all they perceive themselves as is their fancy gender identity or sexual orientation. They must be such complex and intriguing people...

Quote    Reply   
avatar

thisgirl

Heavy User

Posts: 201

#56 [url]

May 20 15 9:04 AM

Has anyone ever found a comic with gay charters in it that didn't have a lot of sex in it? Like it was just a story and some characters happen to be gay, like real life is. I have yet to find a comic like that on the web. I think I found one about a guy that built robots or something, I can't remember it's been a long time, but that's the only one I can think of. Comics like this are just porn the same way exploitation films in the 70's were just porn.

The Not So Epic Adventures of TJ and Amal is my jam! There are 2 or 3 "scenes" in the series but they're short and the story's more focused on their relationship developing. 
Artiface is also pretty cool, there is one implied scene but other than that it's a simple short gay sci-fi comic about an android getting the feels for some dude. I haven't read their newest comic about young superheroes but one of the main ships is that between older villian dude and possibly bearly above legal superhero dude sssssssssssssoooooooooooooo, yeah. Take that as you will. 
I know which comic you're talking about, but the name is lost on me haha. 
Archie now has a few gay characters, I doubt you'll get a wave of sex in there hahaha. 
 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Culhwch

Casual User

Posts: 45

#57 [url]

May 26 15 7:04 PM

I'm with Horerczy that this doesn't feel like a hugely SWJ comic, so much as just skewed perspective on the part of the author.

I'd compare this to Willis of Shortpacked fame; Willis has spent ten years as writer and has deliberately makes a point of playing some game of minority bingo, with the climax showing it as a deliberate and spiteful act. He doesn't really care about characterization, he just wants to throw in every skin tone possible for the sake of it without much thought for writing.

Having read Computer Love? It just reads like it is highschool level. The writing actually reminds me of someone in particular I knew back then, but (perhaps sadly) a significant improvement. All the characters share a wierd logic without taking a moment to slow down and explain it to the audience. The main character's choice to run away from home to a place with /free food/? It really seems like teenage wish fulfillment without much sense of perspective. Drama similarly is overblown and, as one might expect from a teen, heavily centered around Sex. There's even a couple moments which, given a better writer and artist, could be pretty sweet.

There's a lot of gay characters, but they're not only there as affirmative action props so much as they all share the author's wierdness. I can tell there's an attempt at traits under them but Burgeroise just isn't a skilled writer.


The problem with Computer Love is that she's not meeting her own goals very well. For instance, it's fine to want to focus on LGBT characters in a science fiction setting. But it's not fine to make all characters LGBT with no explanation--this is a minority population in every existing demographic, so it's incumbent upon an author to provide a reason why every character in her story ends up being LGBT.

I'd defend this practice from just personal experience; there's a reason a lot of people use the term "the gay community"; niches form quickly and it is sort of a major thing to be connected by. I've been the token straight a few times in cliques where it definitely is the case without there necessarily being a science fiction angle. Having read the story, there seems to be pretty good justification for why; The main character is a lesbian whose only friend/roommate started as a failed pick up in a bar and then there's another fairly isolated, self-indulgent and sex-obcessed character who has one or two people who'll put up with him(?) for more than a one night stand. This isn't a story where every single plot important person is gay conviently, but just one that is centered around a bunch of friends 4/5 of whom are gay.

I could give a crack at reviewing this if you'd like one sort of more optimistic; if the Author is still like 19-23ish, I think they're still young enough to grow out of this and I feel like there's potential in some areas. If they're older and/or very set in their ways? Whelp, the art alone is bad enough to merit the article. Plotwise, the premise is flimsy and exposition is lacking.  the character's logic and emotions are sporatic and hard to follow and the characters are very blunt and rush right into sex. But there were a couple of sweet moments, which could have been greatl in better hands.
Has anyone ever found a comic with gay charters in it that didn't have a lot of sex in it? Like it was just a story and some characters happen to be gay, like real life is. I have yet to find a comic like that on the web. I think I found one about a guy that built robots or something, I can't remember it's been a long time, but that's the only one I can think of. Comics like this are just porn the same way exploitation films in the 70's were just porn.

I think a lot of Comics authors fall into the trap of it being controversial but something that gets a lot of approval form fans. It also depends how you define "a lot of sex". Willis is apparently criticized for not really having much if any gay sex at all, hell, I've dropped it before; he prefers sexy Lesbians (Leslie Beans) to actual gay characters. For a long time it was the token gay guy who eventually got one or two cardboard boyfriends. Last I peaked in, he made his old conservative Stu into a Bisexual for the sake of currying favour but still.

Fairly minimal sex comics with gay characters that I could actually sort of recommend? Monsterkind, Supernormal Step (Not brilliant but decent filler) and I think Manly Guys Doing Manly Things has the Commander mention being Bi (or at least having experimented) very off handedly. Blaster Nation definitely has some fanservice, but not a lot of sex, decentish story.

A lot of people like Gunnerkrigg and they have the Katt/Paz thing with a fair bit of speculation about the other main character. Same with Homestuck.

As to ones focused on the gay community (rather than just having a gay character) I think it is sort of difficult to have a story about the gay community and self discovery in terms of sexual orientation without, you know, sex. It's like a teen drama with mature reactions and people not giving a shit about drama and popularity; lots of examples of that in real life but it typically makes things harder. I can think of Cuanta Vita off the top of my head but I do remember there are some creepy rapey bits. Actual sex is sparse though.
 

Quote    Reply   
avatar

plarblman

Living Spambot

Posts: 1,167

#58 [url]

May 26 15 7:14 PM

I think it's worth pointing out in this strip that Fenn, who has been dead for the last 30 years and unfamiliar with human interaction, is only going along with what her new friends are doing because she doesn't know better. This would be interesting if not for the fact that I know that the story will pass the shit they do (seriously, they're practically a bunch of fursuiters at this point) as completely normal. Just imagine if the scenario were slightly different; imagine if they tried to convince Fenn that stuffing lightbulbs up your butt was a normal social convention. Or worse.

Quote    Reply   

#60 [url]

May 26 15 9:28 PM

courage136dog wrote:
i'm back from playing dark cloud,well i'm not but i have time, i'll get to working on this 3rd draft soon.

And now i need to play dark cloud again.

_____________________________________________________________________

People have a common defense mechanism they employ to defend themselves from the threat of contrary viewpoints. This shield they wield is the act of dismissing such contrary viewpoints by arbitrarily undermining their validity.

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help