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SmashLampjaw

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#61 [url]

Feb 19 17 9:20 PM

Shan wrote:
OK, to answer your question about the Vitamin B12 issue, it is a point of vulnerability for people on purely plant based diets. So, I wouldn't take it out myself. I would use it as an important significant differentiator between vegetarians and vegans at a practical and health level - vegetarians do have the milk, cheese, eggs, yogurt option.

I guess vegans could do yogurt?
No, vegans can't do any product created by or from an animal, including leather and honey. (There is a movement among vegans to use honey to save bees via capitalism, but that is way off-topic and isn't vegan.) If they're unlucky enough to require vitamins/minerals from whole food animal sources or derived from animal sources, they can either cheat on veganism or commit suicide by malnutrition.
.
Shan wrote:
Supplements could also be an option, probably the easiest one.
As I mentioned a few times before and as was went over in the linked story, supplements don't work for everyone.

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Shan

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#62 [url]

Feb 20 17 6:41 AM

Yeah, but I'm talking vegetarianism. Vegetarians can do milk, cheese, and eggs, I know vegans can't, I just didn't know where yogurt falls.

That article ... yeesh. I think I'm going to talk to some actual scientists about all of that with all the histrionics stripped out.

Anyway, the key point I'm just pitching for discussion in this article is a fairly narrow focus. Whole books have been written on the subject and we're not writing another one, that's not our job. I'm just thinking maybe it could be a point of vulnerability. Unlikely but there's always the outside chance that someone could just focus on "Meat isn't required for human health." and go down an avenue of just concentrating on that and all the discussions about the art, characters, and writing - our main raison d'etre gets sidetracked.

(By focus on that, I mean writing their own comment on the science on something elsewhere - itself unlikely and if it does happen, the ripple in the Internet is likely to be small and short-lived.)

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Long Tom

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#63 [url]

Feb 20 17 6:57 AM

Shan wrote:
Yeah, but I'm talking vegetarianism. Vegetarians can do milk, cheese, and eggs, I know vegans can't, I just didn't know where yogurt falls.

That article ... yeesh. I think I'm going to talk to some actual scientists about all of that with all the histrionics stripped out.

Anyway, the key point I'm just pitching for discussion in this article is a fairly narrow focus. Whole books have been written on the subject and we're not writing another one, that's not our job. I'm just thinking maybe it could be a point of vulnerability. Unlikely but there's always the outside chance that someone could just focus on "Meat isn't required for human health." and go down an avenue of just concentrating on that and all the discussions about the art, characters, and writing - our main raison d'etre gets sidetracked.

(By focus on that, I mean writing their own comment on the science on something elsewhere - itself unlikely and if it does happen, the ripple in the Internet is likely to be small and short-lived.)

I agree.  Rather than concentrate too much on the merits or lack thereof of veganism, the review should focus on the webcomic's heavy-handed handling of the subject.  Which is why it is to be listed here.

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plarblman

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#64 [url]

Feb 20 17 8:37 AM

Here's what I suggest on the subject: "While it's possible to live on a meat-free diet, very few people, including most vegans, ever do it long-term. Ensuring a balanced diet requires great care and effort in a healthy, normal person. For anyone with special dietary restrictions, especially soy and nut allergies, they may find veganism to be outright impossible to adopt.

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izzus

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#65 [url]

Feb 20 17 1:25 PM

You know I'm thinking about just deleting those two entries in the list.

Edit: I thought about it and did it. Seems like they were the high point of contention so now they're gone.

Another edit: There's some stuff I'm gonna change in the review. I'll get around to it tomorrow.

Last Edited By: izzus Feb 20 17 10:13 PM. Edited 2 times.

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#69 [url]

Feb 22 17 2:53 PM

Shan wrote:
May I please suggest that the paragraph starting 'So the drummer of the vaguely metal/noise/post band ..." and ending "... and then the first band watches Sharknado." be split into at least two somewhere? It's kind of huge.
 

 
I kind of like how I made that whole section a stream of thought. It fits the absurd and tacky tone of the specific section I was reviewing. Unless it is hard to read for most people, I would rather it stay as one long run on paragraph.

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Shan

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#70 [url]

Feb 22 17 3:51 PM

OK then.

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Shan

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#71 [url]

Feb 23 17 8:00 AM

Shan wrote:
May I please suggest that the paragraph starting 'So the drummer of the vaguely metal/noise/post band ..." and ending "... and then the first band watches Sharknado." be split into at least two somewhere? It's kind of huge.

Also, what's currently happening with:

http://badwebcomicswiki.shoutwiki.com/wiki/User:Unknown_Hippie

?

OK, you know what, if there's no movement on this by April 1st, I'm adding this on or after that date. Shame to see what seems to be a perfectly good review going to waste.

If I'm wrong about it being a good enough review for inclusion ... well that's also worth mentioning because maybe it could still be salvaged, then.

Either option's fine by me, just as long as we do something with it other than nothing at all.

http://badwebcomicswiki.shoutwiki.com/wiki/User:Unknown_Hippie

 

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Shan

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#74 [url]

Feb 24 17 5:43 PM

OK, looking at the Vegan Artbook review. It looks pretty good.

Wondering if these were any use?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HitlerAteSugar

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/diet/you-milk-a-cow-from-the-same-end-it-poops/news-story/ced270797a05d64bafbc8ae87fdbb8fc

(Pasteurisation was invented for a reason, people.)

"EARLIER this month a bunch of politicians in the US got together and toasted one another with a glass of raw milk to celebrate the fact that the governor of West Virginia signed into law a bill that makes it legal to drink unpasteurised milk.

According to an anonymous tipster, after drinking the milk, several of the politicians became severely ill."

Idiots.

To add, I'll see if I can write something about Vitamin B12 and put it here, it's still worth mentioning. Added note.

If you're on a proton pump inhibitor long term (we call one version Losec, I think you call it Prilosec, other names for variants include Nexium, Somac, Pariet, omeprazole, pantoprazole, rabeprazole and so on), over many years, use, that can also lead to Vitamin B12 deficiency and not all doctors know about it, either.

(Zantac, ranitidine and so on are H2 receptor antagonists and hence work differently but it can't hurt to check - remember double check everything I say even if it's as innocuous as saying 'eat an apple'

edit:

​Nearly forgot about this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tobacco_movement_in_Nazi_Germany

"Anti-tobacco movements grew in many nations from the beginning of the 20th century,[4][5] but these had little success, except in Germany, where the campaign was supported by the government after the Nazis came to power.[4] It was the most powerful anti-smoking movement in the world during the 1930s and early 1940s.["

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/07/the-nazis-forgotten-anti-smoking-campaign/373766/

​Unfortunately, all that other stuff it was attached to ...

​Anyway, I thought all or some of that might be useful for incorporation, perhaps ...

​edit 2:

​Had to wade through a lot of junk to find a reliable source from a legitimate medical journal I know of. If nothing else, a brief mention about Vitamin B12 and its importance using a quote from this article like this one:

"Vitamin B12 deficiency is a potential concern for anyone with insufficient dietary intake of vitamin B12, including those adhering to a vegan or vegetarian diet or significantly restricting animal-based foods. Studies have found that vegetarians, particularly vegans, have lower serum vitamin B12 levels, and it is likely that anyone avoiding animal-based foods will eventually become deficient if their diet is not supplemented. ​"

​(That's the first half of the conclusion.)

and a link to this article:

https://www.mja.com.au/open/2012/1/2/vitamin-b12-and-vegetarian-diets

"The Medical Journal of Australia is a peer-reviewed medical journal. It is the official journal of the Australian Medical Association, published by the Australasian Medical Publishing Company."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Medical_Journal_of_Australia
 

Last Edited By: Shan Feb 24 17 6:06 PM. Edited 2 times.

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SmashLampjaw

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#75 [url]

Feb 28 17 3:19 PM

@Shan: I have rolled back your last 7 edits to Vegan Artbook, which included 4 paragraphs of B12 educational material you crammed into the review for no good reason.

You're supposed to ask permission on the board for any changes to a review that adds up to more than a paragraph or that alters to tone of the review. This is not the UN World Health Organization and Bad Webcomics Wiki. I'm also more than a little concerned by your edits that changed the tone of the review.

I thought the 18 times I've said it would make it clear enough, but this is a review site that publishes in a wiki format, not a wiki site that publishes review material. It's not a group writing effort, it's a group maintenance effort.

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Last Edited By: SmashLampjaw Feb 28 17 3:21 PM. Edited 1 time.

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Shan

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#76 [url]

Feb 28 17 3:28 PM

SmashLampjaw wrote:
@Shan: I have rolled back your last 7 edits to Vegan Artbook, which included 4 paragraphs of B12 educational material you crammed into the review for no good reason.

You're supposed to ask permission on the board for any changes to a review that adds up to more than a paragraph or that alters to tone of the review. This is not the UN World Health Organization and Bad Webcomics Wiki. I'm also more than a little concerned by your edits that changed the tone of the review.

I thought the 18 times I've said it would make it clear enough, but this is a review site that publishes in a wiki format, not a wiki site that publishes review material. It's not a group writing effort, it's a group maintenance effort.

I sent izzus a personal message about it and said to look at what was worth keeping and discard the rest (or even all of it) and he said OK, he'd do that with his next pass.

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Shan

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#78 [url]

Feb 28 17 3:36 PM

OK, won't happen again (on purpose anyway.) I just didn't want to clutter this place up with a conversation with me and izzus.

It was always intended to be temporary in the sense that I said to izzus just see if there's any of that stuff you can use and cull out the rest and since it hadn't been main page listed ...

Well, he said he's going to be working on it at some point so it can be ready for main page listing.

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SmashLampjaw

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#79 [url]

Feb 28 17 3:37 PM

Shan wrote:
I sent izzus a personal message about it and said to look at what was worth keeping and discard the rest (or even all of it) and he said OK, he'd do that with his next pass.
The place to do that is over here in a thread for the review. The place for your changes to be proposed before they're approved by the author (unless they're AWOL) is in a post or maybe your sandbox, not edited into the live version of the review.

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Shan

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#80 [url]

Feb 28 17 3:39 PM

OK.

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