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Shan

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#61 [url]

Apr 5 16 11:17 AM

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 wrote:

Long Tom wrote:

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 wrote:
Also, one last thing because I refuse to let this bullshit die, it seems even more hypocritical when you consider that this website frequently links to ED, which is an extreamly "misogynistic" website.

Encyclopedia Dramatica links to our articles, though I assume they do so on their own accord.  We never asked their permission when we added links to them, so why shouldn't they have the same right?

ED and Bad Webcomics K-I-S-S-I-N-G in a tree...

Oh come on, spoilers now.

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Long Tom

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#62 [url]

Apr 5 16 11:19 AM

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 wrote:

Long Tom wrote:

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 wrote:
Also, one last thing because I refuse to let this bullshit die, it seems even more hypocritical when you consider that this website frequently links to ED, which is an extreamly "misogynistic" website.

Encyclopedia Dramatica links to our articles, though I assume they do so on their own accord.  We never asked their permission when we added links to them, so why shouldn't they have the same right?

ED and Bad Webcomics K-I-S-S-I-N-G in a tree...

More like sending secret love letters.

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oddguy

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#63 [url]

Apr 5 16 11:55 AM

While I also strongly dislike the misuse and overuse of misogyny by people who conflate it with sexism, I feel that there is an attitude of contempt towards women that permeates throughout Shadebase alongside an almost fetishistic glee at the though of committing violence against them. In the case of LICD, the comic goes beyond treating women with sexism by acting as if they are inferior to men, and mostly acts as if they are less than human.

So, although there is no quantifiable measure by which we could decide if something is or is not hateful towards woman (or has it's creation fuelled by such feeling), I can say, purely based on my own impressions, that in the case of both these comics it is not an overstatement to describe them or their authors as misogynistic.

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#64 [url]

Apr 5 16 9:13 PM

A little tidbit I learned from this thread is that misogyny is literally just sexism towards women with only the connotation being directly linked to hatred. They are being correct with using the term but it's easily misinterpreted.

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fallinq

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#65 [url]

Apr 5 16 9:27 PM

Long Tom wrote:

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 wrote:

Long Tom wrote:

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 wrote:
Also, one last thing because I refuse to let this bullshit die, it seems even more hypocritical when you consider that this website frequently links to ED, which is an extreamly "misogynistic" website.

Encyclopedia Dramatica links to our articles, though I assume they do so on their own accord.  We never asked their permission when we added links to them, so why shouldn't they have the same right?

ED and Bad Webcomics K-I-S-S-I-N-G in a tree...

More like sending secret love letters.

Shhhh! No one must know of our hot, sweaty, torrid, incredibly shameful love affair with ED.

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Shan

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#66 [url]

Apr 5 16 9:28 PM

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 wrote:
A little tidbit I learned from this thread is that misogyny is literally just sexism towards women with only the connotation being directly linked to hatred. They are being correct with using the term but it's easily misinterpreted.

Language changes whether we like it or not. Literally has gone from just meaning literally to figuratively as well in popular parlance.

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SmashLampjaw

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#67 [url]

Apr 5 16 10:04 PM

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 wrote:
Misogyny shouldn't be scrapped as a word, it's just very rarely used in a way that actually matters to describe a comic.
...
ED is more "misogynistic" than every other comic talked about (besides Angel Corps). I do not have a problem with this. I think that would be self-evident since I put it in quotes and I've made what I think fairly clear but you could just be trying to mischaracterize me; judging by your other points, you probably are.
I should probably start this by saying I'm not being sarcastic or meaning any of this as an insult.

The only issue I've had with your thread (and I think it's caused some confusion about your motives) is you cited a problem but never actually said what you wanted done about it. Unless I missed something, the only statement you made was that didn't want anything done about it. So I'm kind of at a loss to understand why you brought it up in the first place. I think that's true for a lot of people and we can't help but fill the vacuum with guesswork. Some kind of call to action might help us narrow down what your goal/grievance actually is since there'd be less room to misinterpret it.

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#68 [url]

Apr 6 16 6:49 PM

SmashLampjaw wrote:

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 wrote:
Misogyny shouldn't be scrapped as a word, it's just very rarely used in a way that actually matters to describe a comic.
...
ED is more "misogynistic" than every other comic talked about (besides Angel Corps). I do not have a problem with this. I think that would be self-evident since I put it in quotes and I've made what I think fairly clear but you could just be trying to mischaracterize me; judging by your other points, you probably are.

I should probably start this by saying I'm not being sarcastic or meaning any of this as an insult.

The only issue I've had with your thread (and I think it's caused some confusion about your motives) is you cited a problem but never actually said what you wanted done about it. Unless I missed something, the only statement you made was that didn't want anything done about it. So I'm kind of at a loss to understand why you brought it up in the first place. I think that's true for a lot of people and we can't help but fill the vacuum with guesswork. Some kind of call to action might help us narrow down what your goal/grievance actually is since there'd be less room to misinterpret it.

[left]I don't know how to word this because it's more complex than it being "stop using the word misogynist" but I'll try. It's about making valid complaints about the comics instead of putting on a morally righteous persona or complaining about something otherwise menial to a comic's quality. Least I Could Do can not give the characters in-depth personalities because it's a short gag comic. To complain that a comic with a focus on chracters and story has shit characters is more valid. Same thing with misogyny. If it's blatant and pervasive enough for you to be legimately annoyed by it then complain about it. But it really doesn't matter most of the time and it's usually just added to create a more dramatic tone.  To be honest, I don't give a shit about any comedy's connotations unless those connotations are used as crutch and even then I care about the crutch and not the connotation.
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Kraken

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#69 [url]

Apr 7 16 5:53 AM

 eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23

Least I Could Do can not give the characters in-depth personalities because it's a short gag comic. To complain that a comic with a focus on chracters and story has shit characters is more valid. Same thing with misogyny. If it's blatant and pervasive enough for you to be legimately annoyed by it then complain about it.

 
By that argument, Sinfest could also not be accused of misandry because it's a short gag comic. Of course, Sinfest is a blazing example of misandry, just as LICD's deeply ingrained misogyny is obvious to pretty much everyone except you.

The author of the LICD review clearly thought the comic's baked-in hatred and contempt towards women was "blatant and pervasive enough" to be "legitimately annoyed" by it. You don't, and you've tried to make your case as to why, but I don't think you've made a very compelling argument. What you've just suggested is that misogyny somehow requires a story where characters have in-depth development, which is arbitrary and unsupportable.

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#70 [url]

Apr 7 16 4:25 PM

Kraken wrote:

 eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23

Least I Could Do can not give the characters in-depth personalities because it's a short gag comic. To complain that a comic with a focus on chracters and story has shit characters is more valid. Same thing with misogyny. If it's blatant and pervasive enough for you to be legimately annoyed by it then complain about it.

By that argument, Sinfest could also not be accused of misandry because it's a short gag comic. Of course, Sinfest is a blazing example of misandry, just as LICD's deeply ingrained misogyny is obvious to pretty much everyone except you.

The author of the LICD review clearly thought the comic's baked-in hatred and contempt towards women was "blatant and pervasive enough" to be "legitimately annoyed" by it. You don't, and you've tried to make your case as to why, but I don't think you've made a very compelling argument. What you've just suggested is that misogyny somehow requires a story where characters have in-depth development, which is arbitrary and unsupportable.

Never said that a gag comic can't misogynistic. What I said that is that it doesn't matter. From what I've seen of LICD, it's all sexually based and the punchline is not really at the expense of the woman. Objectification and stereotypes and what have you really don't matter if you're working in a couple of panels .LICD is pretty indirect with it and you’d have to be going out of your way to make a case, honestly, those are probably the least offensive forms of misogyny or any kind discrimination. Shadbase is closer to being “blatant and pervasive” but it’s pretty indiscriminate so again, it’s kind of moot to mention. Misogyny doesn't require a complex story to be considered misogyny but it makes your offense (and complaints) a lot more valid in my eyes.

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#72 [url]

Apr 7 16 11:11 PM

So because it's not as offensive as other forms of discrimination it's OK? Bullshit.

_____________________________________________________________________

People have a common defense mechanism they employ to defend themselves from the threat of contrary viewpoints. This shield they wield is the act of dismissing such contrary viewpoints by arbitrarily undermining their validity.

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rhekyono

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Posts: 78

#75 [url]

Apr 8 16 12:00 AM

I think... the issue with whether or not something "matters" in regards to a strip with loose or no continuity is if the offending subject is only touched on once in a while, or with regularity. Least I Could Do is definitely an example of a frequent offender, as the material being objected to here is the crux of a large percentage of the strip's content. And that's a very big indicator as to whether someone will want to stick out the comic for themselves, something a review is supposed to help you figure out.

And I do know that the particular example of that webcomic being repeatedly referenced is something of a broken record, but at least it's a common example that everyone understands pretty well, whatever their stance.

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#77 [url]

Apr 8 16 5:31 AM

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 wrote:
No, but it really is a lot less offensive and direct than other forms of misogyny.

That's the crux of the issue and there's no real way of proving that I'm right here because it's so subjective.



Wow, just wow. Just because you are used to misgonany in the comic does not make it non misgonistic. It does not matter if it is 'funny'.

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#78 [url]

Apr 8 16 10:59 AM

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 wrote:

Least I Could Do can not give the characters in-depth personalities because it's a short gag comic.
 

Yeah, no way Charles M. Schultz did that for what, fifty years?

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Shan

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#79 [url]

Apr 8 16 1:49 PM

UtopiaGuy wrote:

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 wrote:

Least I Could Do can not give the characters in-depth personalities because it's a short gag comic.
 

Yeah, no way Charles M. Schultz did that for what, fifty years?

You should really come around more often.

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#80 [url]

Apr 8 16 10:19 PM

The Dying Life wrote:

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 wrote:
No, but it really is a lot less offensive and direct than other forms of misogyny.

That's the crux of the issue and there's no real way of proving that I'm right here because it's so subjective.

 


Wow, just wow. Just because you are used to misgonany in the comic does not make it non misgonistic. It does not matter if it is 'funny'.

I never said that me being used to it made it not misogynistic.I said that it doesn't matter to me because LICD's misogyny is so tame and tolerable. Anything can be funny and if it's a short gag comic being funny is all that matters. 
Not like I could convince you of this anyway. 


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wow+just+wow "People not agreeing with me? Just wow."

Last Edited By: eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee23 Apr 8 16 10:32 PM. Edited 1 time.

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