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May 16 16 2:01 AM

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Ok fellow cum-catchers, I have just found the best worst webcomic I have ever seen

It is absolutely hilarious!

http://www.bigheadpress.com/tpbtgn?page=0 The Probability Broach


TL:DR
- If you thought Escape From Terra was hammy and preachy in its political propaganda, then you haven't seen nothing yet
- starts out in an AU 1987, where a cop tries to work under the oppression of the kind of government that anarcho-capitalsts have wet dreams about making strawmen of
- suddenly a lil dimension-jumping later, we're in roughly the same year, but in an an-cap utopia where everyone is super nice and everything is hightech, because clearly an-cap society will do that to you

oh, and it includes a rather comprehensive history-retelling about how Washington and other founding fathers who *gasp* wanted to tax people were evil devils, and how rightous and true an-cap patriots saved the day...

This thing is a hilarious continuous propaganda piece. There's even a part where the cop (he's the main character) tries to advocate for gun control, but gets shamed and shouted down for even daring to think of wanting to infringe of people's 'natural right' to own any kind of handcannon they could want. And everyone has a super nano handwavium hospital at home, and genetically uplifted monkey butlers (because of course)


I can't stop laughing at this.

While Escape from Terra got dull and repetitive in its "oh hey, another villain of the week sent by the evil earth government to somehow gain control of the an-cap community" this is thing is just so much more out there... because apparently a century-old transdimensional tax-loving conspiracy is trying to kill the extra-dimensional cop because no fucking clue.

It is hilarious in how many plot-holes it has (true to form for any an-cap propaganda piece) but it is actually fairly well paced, for the most part: Its like watching a michael bay instructed version of Atlas Shrugged: Every time someone tries to get philosophical, there's a gun-fight with big explosions a second later. You never have time to get bored.

Bring popcorn and have an archive


oh, and there doesn't really seem to be any black people in the comic - but there sure are a shitload of anthro-chimps running around being servants. No thinly-veiled slavery imagery here, nope, not at all.

I can't stop laughing!

EDIT: 

A few things I haven't mentioned
1) the whole thing is 185 pages - it takes a few hours to archive binge.

2) the big climax comes in that the bad guys from the utopia world and their 'evil world' chronies were trying to use the trans-dimension portal tech to basicaly take over utopia-world.
- the portal tech only worked on a dimension-to-dimension basis. so if you opened in one place in evil world, then it would open in the exact same spacial location in the utopia world - if you have a map of both worlds you can start to exploit this. Which is what the baddies wanted to do.
- they wanted to use the threat of portaling in nukes from evil world to utopia world...

Seriously, this comic is so hammy and ludicruis! All the bad guys in utopia world are WW1 prussian nobles, because somehow an-cap utopia allowed for longevity science since the 1910s or something. Oh and in the utopia world the moon landing was 1947, with the US vs russia moon wars in the 50s. This is just so ludicruis!

 

Last Edited By: webkilla May 16 16 2:32 AM. Edited 1 time

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Shan

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#1 [url]

May 16 16 2:56 AM

Thank you, just read the first 48 pages or so. I love alternate world stories.

You're right about how funny it is when the politics bleed through. My country had what I think was the biggest gun buyback in history and crime, murders suicides and shootings continued their inexorable march downwards as opposed to what this comic suggests might happen when you take all the guns away. In fact, we went from one mass shooting a year for about 10 or more years in a row to none in the last 20 since the buyback. I know correlations don't equal causation in and of itself but it was very suggestive of this.

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#2 [url]

May 16 16 5:11 AM

ya but the gun-mania thing seems to be par for the course for bigheadpress comics - Escape from Terra, Quantum Vibe (and its sequel), and this comic - they all spout this "You must have guns, but there shouldn't be any police" madness

...and apparently everyone and their granny in those settings either have access to cheap yet high quality guns, or they can nano-replicate them on their own. Though, considering how the artist of this comic seems to draw guns as just all black huge blocky handcannons (that everyone seem to be able to expertly wield with just one hand)

but ya - this comic is a neverending rollercoaster of upping the ante and pilling on the BS. The sad thing is that the actual premise, aside from the political BS, is actually quite good: The idea of non-spacial trans-dim transport tech makes for some interesting ways for both the good guys and the bad guys to fuck around.

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#4 [url]

May 16 16 9:36 AM

Pink Rabbit wrote:
Is it a so bad it's good kind of comic?

Yes

but arguably that just makes it even more worthy of entry into the wiki here

This comic is the An-cap version of Assigned Male - like a rabid frothing-at-the-mouth catholic slapping bible-verse-tattoo'd dick back and forth over your face, going "DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD NOW YOU HEATHEN SCUM!?!"

like those cartoon parodies of hitler where he screams himself hoarse.

I mean... ok, ok, here's a good example of just how... not subtle.... it is:

image

So, the guy in the hat is the cop. The other guy is the utopia-world version of him, who is a private dick. And the private dick's conclussion upon hearing that the secret police was after the cop isn't "Hmm, sounds like a shady conspiracy or that you found something they want" - no, its "Sounds like you have too much government". Subtle.

Now, apparently this "whiskey rebbellion" (which is harped on A LOT in the comic, since that's the springoff point for the AU) was a real thing - it was the first federal tax the new US govt levied and enforced, the 'rebellion' didn't include any fighting, and nobody even ultimately got sent to jail over resisting it. Hamilton was the first US secretary of the treasury (the tax was his idea) which of course also means that all the bad guys in the utopia-world are called Hamiltonians, for wanting to tax and 'oppress' the common free folk.

a more elaborate retelling of that bit of AU history comes here: http://www.bigheadpress.com/tpbtgn?page=55 and onwards

now, compare and contrast this to the wiki page on the incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion
basically
- post war of independence the US govt owed a shitload of money
- th
ey taxed distilled spirits (which was chiefly whiskey)
- 3 years later western frontier farmers were like "No u" and attacked a single tax collector's fortified home (doesn't say anything about anyone getting killed)
- 13.000 soldiers were sent to suppress this
- washington rode ahead of this army, and no fighting came fo it
- of those arrested, all were aquited or pardoned and things returned to normal

In the AU version some silver-tongued super dude leading the tax rebellion managed to talk the whole army and the general leading it (who isn't washington) into DEFECTING and then they basically find Washington and shoot him, while the evil tax-pusher Hamilton flees to Europe. The comic also portrays the 'crisis' that the whiskey tax had been put into place to fix was some kind of trade crisis. It was government debt... but why cares, it was evil government stuff.

Sounds totally plausible right?


Oh, and apparently the whole story was thought up back in the 70s. That very much goes to explain why the setting is 1987 and why even the high-tech stuff looks horribly old-school.

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Long Tom

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#5 [url]

May 16 16 11:16 AM

Shan wrote:
Thank you, just read the first 48 pages or so. I love alternate world stories.

You're right about how funny it is when the politics bleed through. My country had what I think was the biggest gun buyback in history and crime, murders suicides and shootings continued their inexorable march downwards as opposed to what this comic suggests might happen when you take all the guns away. In fact, we went from one mass shooting a year for about 10 or more years in a row to none in the last 20 since the buyback. I know correlations don't equal causation in and of itself but it was very suggestive of this.

I'm sure you heard the old elephant whistles joke:

Fred: I have a set of elephant whistles, and they're designed to keep elephants away!
Bob: You idiot, there are no elephants around here!
Fred: See?  They work!

I know a criminal lawyer who has mentioned that guess what happens during the gun buyback programs?  The guns don't get destroyed by the police.

We've had gun buyback programs nad gun control laws in the USA over many decades.  Guess how well they reduced gun violence?  Not a whit.  Handguns were banned in Chicago in 1982 and you can guess how that stopped gun violence and drive-by shootings.  They got worse.

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#6 [url]

May 16 16 2:41 PM

Tom - lets try to keep it on topic about the comic, not about gun control. My jabs about the comic's stance on the topic was chiefly that its so hilariously one-sided and with such contempt for any kind of gun control. In the comic private citizens seem to easily able to whip out firearms the size of small dogs that can blast small tanks away.

Or I could just let this speak for itself:

http://www.bigheadpress.com/tpbtgn?page=71 - a bunch of goons just tried to assault the home where the cop from the shit-world is staying. They caught one of the attackers alive. The cop just managed to intimidate the captive into saying who had sent them.

The fun starts with the third panel where he says that he didn't have his gun loaded while intimidating the captive - because he didn't trust himself not to do something stupid. The doctor present calls his an immoral and horrible person, and the cop takes umbrage at being called immoral, considering that some minutes earlier the captive had been part of a posse trying to kill them all.

The cop calls bullshit, noting that since everyone in an-cap utopia has a firearm - ready to kill anyone who threatens them - to which he also questions why they feel the need to even bear arms 

The next 3-4 pages get down right hilarious, since we should all know that anyone questioning your right to bear arms in an an-cap propaganda comic... well, they're but strawmen meant to be knocked down.



It's truly ironic: the cop very much so has a point in noting that a society where everyone has guns and there are no police - and everyone seems to just dish out justice as they seem fit (dueling is a thing here, as in pistols and 10 paces) - he considers that kinda nuts. But again, one-sided political agenda here, so... nope

Last Edited By: webkilla May 16 16 2:50 PM. Edited 1 time.

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rhekyono

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#7 [url]

May 16 16 3:12 PM

Seeing that firearm discussion, I really feel like there's a huge piece of the puzzle missing for how this society got to this point... and it boils down to my thought that their adapting such a way of life would leave them terribly open to invasion due to their lack of organization. It only works if the rest of the world thinks like they do, as well, and good luck demonstrating how it would spread.

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YHE

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#8 [url]

May 16 16 6:53 PM

I remember how in Roswell, New Mexico where in their utopia, it was a jailable offense NOT to have a gun with you at all times (unless there's a medical reason). For a series of comics that like to complain about the government infringing on their freedoms (especially related to guns), they see no problem in stomping on the rights of people who don't want to do everything they want. Then again, I have my issues with the anarchs (the an-caps, especially).

@rhekyono: Since there is no well-trained army or police to provide basic defense, you'd be stuck with some weekend warriors or at best street gangs to defend you. Tanks, planes, bazookas, etc. don't come cheap and it take time to learn how to use them properly.

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rhekyono

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#9 [url]

May 16 16 7:46 PM

Exactly my point, YHE. This civilization (if you can call it that) should have been wiped out long ago, simply by virtue of other cultures existing and having their own ambitions for the modern world.

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DP

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#10 [url]

May 16 16 8:28 PM

Kind of a shame about the apparent preaching, considering the art is actually very good as far as webcomics go. I'd love to see a no-bullshit Noir or police procedural comic in this style.

Hell, I might just read this thing anyway.

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plarblman

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May 16 16 8:36 PM

You know what would be funny? If there were a third dimension, except this one was an-com instead of an-cap, and then they all got into a gigantic war over who's doing anarchy right.

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#13 [url]

May 16 16 9:01 PM

rhekyono wrote:
Seeing that firearm discussion, I really feel like there's a huge piece of the puzzle missing for how this society got to this point... and it boils down to my thought that their adapting such a way of life would leave them terribly open to invasion due to their lack of organization. It only works if the rest of the world thinks like they do, as well, and good luck demonstrating how it would spread.

Ya pretty much. Hell, in the comic they claim that the utopia-world's US 'solved' its foreign debt by printing money backed by land.

Read: They gave away large tracts of north american territory to foreign debt collectors.

I can only imagine how that would make american frontier settlers happy, when suddenly an expedition of french or spanish colonists came along and said "Fuck off, your government has paid us with your land and we're cashing in"


As for the an-cap vs an-com? Ya why not. If the comic 'would just' take away the preachy politics and instead focus on that, sure. Or hell, all kinds of different parallel worlds: A story where the idea is to explore various AUs caused by all kinds of variations in history. What if Washington had been a frenchman, and so on.

Hell, come to think of it: Back in the 90s there was an austrailian sci-fi series aimed at teens called Girl from tomorow IIRC - it's gimmick was that a girl from a bleak future appaered in the past, via a time-machine. Only, the machine only did time, not space, so you had to set the machine up in the exact same spot you wanted to arrive in, in the future, and she needed to stop half the world from being destroyed or something. Basically the reverse plot of this comic if you think about it.

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DP

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#14 [url]

May 16 16 9:04 PM

image

The comic reaaaaally lays it on thick, and this is only page 9. I honestly wouldn't even mind if pushing heavy opinions around wasn't the beginning focus.

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#15 [url]

May 16 16 11:38 PM

I also just love how everyone and everything in the comic is some kind of -arian. If you like having private property you're a propertarian. If you support Hamilton's notion of taxing people you're Hamiltonian.

but ya - that's "enlightened selfishness" for you. They expect everyone to play nice and get along, without there being any kind of police to stop people from just shooting each other. The naivety is just astounding.

And indeed, for a nation without a military - how the fuck would the US have fared during the rise of communism? That's never mentioned. Oh and somehow the post-independence-war US had control of all of Canada as well. Because reasons.

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SmashLampjaw

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May 19 16 6:10 PM

Thank you for this find. I didn't originally think it was crazy and was wondering if you just had a political axe to grind... which I realized was a mistake on my part once he arrived in the alternate universe. A few pages in and it just spiraled into madness and proselytizing.
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webkilla wrote:
This thing is a hilarious continuous propaganda piece. There's even a part where the cop (he's the main character) tries to advocate for gun control, but gets shamed and shouted down for even daring to think of wanting to infringe of people's 'natural right' to own any kind of handcannon they could want. And everyone has a super nano handwavium hospital at home, and genetically uplifted monkey butlers (because of course)
In all fairness, he was arguing for the abolition of gun ownership and claimed people only wanted them because they were phallic symbols. The response he got was equally ridiculous; how in the hell would someone have heard arguments against allowing gun ownership in an anarchy that has no way to outlaw anything?
.
webkilla wrote:
It is hilarious in how many plot-holes it has (true to form for any an-cap propaganda piece) but it is actually fairly well paced, for the most part: Its like watching a michael bay instructed version of Atlas Shrugged
...
but ya - that's "enlightened selfishness" for you.
Your Ayn Rand references are off-base; objectivists aren't anarchists. This is extreme libertarianism. The author even explicitly says where in his ass he pulled this philosophy out of in the third sentence on page 0. Why would anything in this comic be confused with selfishness considering how much free shit Win won for hitting the portal lottery?
.
webkilla wrote:
oh, and there doesn't really seem to be any black people in the comic - but there sure are a shitload of anthro-chimps running around being servants. No thinly-veiled slavery imagery here, nope, not at all.
I didn't draw this conclusion, but I did find the chimps incredibly distracting. "If only we got rid of governments! Then everyone would have a talking monkey best friend!" I mean holy shit, how much wish fulfillment do you need in one comic?
.
webkilla wrote:
Tom - lets try to keep it on topic about the comic, not about gun control. My jabs about the comic's stance on the topic was chiefly that its so hilariously one-sided and with such contempt for any kind of gun control.
Strange how it was on-topic when you and Shan were agreeing with each other. The abolishment of gun ownership vs. unlimited gun ownership is a core part of this comic so I don't see why it shouldn't at least be compared to the real world in relation to the comic. For example, Australia's gun confiscation and buy back measures have resulted in an upswing in gun crimes, especially home invasions. At the same time, it's kind of baffling that the comic would depict most of its violence occurring with home invasions (I'm about 1/3 in), especially since most people live in fortress mansions.

The pro-gun ownership arguments in this comic are insane in context, which I say as someone vehemently opposed to gun control. Take any situation where confusion occurs. Say there's a crazy person who starts shooting people at a mall. They get shot to death, but, other people startled by the gun fire pull their guns to defend themselves. Some fire. It's unclear who started the shooting, so people are in a stand-off. How does this get diffused? In the real world, when the police show up, you have a universally recognized authority to demand the fight stop who you are reasonably sure is going to try to resolve the violence. In this world... who tells everyone to stop? Who untangles the mess when everyone is ready to kill each other? I'm aware there are private police forces, but why would they get involved when there's no way to profit?

Getting away from guns, there's also issues with how this society manages without prisons. The author decided everyone sues each other, and if you don't make restitution you're publicly shamed and no one will do business with you. There are two glaring problems, one with each aspect of the world.

1) If I commit a crime in this alt universe I am required to pay money for it. What if I'm a rich scumbag and the only thing that gets me off is drugging women and having my way with them? There's no way the "hired judge" is going to know I'm rich and adjust the penalty so it actually hurts me; citizens can mint their own money so there's no central accounting of who has how much, credit cards, or credit bureaus. "Maybe they'll use your criminal record?" How's a judge going to get my rap sheet in the first place when there's no centralized record keeping? This is a society we're repeatedly told wouldn't allow a database of criminal's fingerprints, remember. Why in the hell would they refuse to take fingerprints but keep enough data to positively identify me by things that aren't even unique? Why would it even matter in a world that is apparently borderless? If there were enough criminals, how could people even keep track of them all when you don't have to show ID to do pretty much anything?

2) The idea that nobody would do business with me if I didn't pay restitution (effectively causing me to die cold and hungry) would be a pretty awesome deterrent. Eeeeexcept that's totally unenforceable without a government, so the punishment really is that nobody should do business with you. We currently live in a world where celebrities can get away with all sorts of crimes even though we're supposed to have governments that punish everyone for committing them. What about a celebrity in this world? There's nothing stopping someone from failing to shame them. Then there's the wealthy to think about. I have to stress the point: you're ordered to pay restitution but you can refuse. There's no taking of property by force, so if you had a small fortune you could just have a second party do your trading for you. Hell, someone could build a business around that; with a 5% markup you could easily get rake in a ton of money for spending other people's money.

Besides those, there are other major holes in the story.

Maybe I haven't read far enough yet, so anyone feel free to correct me, but how does anyone know who owns what property? To be clear I mean land. Alternately: houses or apartments on land. We again hit the problem of lacking a central authority on the matter. If I sell a house I own how does the change in ownership become publicly resolved? What if I sold it to three separate parties and skipped town with their money? Who owns it?

How did anarcho-capitalism spread worldwide? The problem with anarchy, which amazingly I can recall getting referenced in Mongolian stories that predate Genghis Khan's era, is that in a time of crisis there are no leaders to rally people and direct their efforts. What stopped the British from invading these assclowns after their government dissolved? What stopped the French, for that matter? They were giving away land to pay debts. Another name for land with your enemy sitting on it is "staging ground". If I am Britain and I can do whatever I want with my property, why wouldn't I decide to use land I was just given for that? Even if they didn't pay Britain back with land, the problem with money is it's fluid. Britain can just trade for it with someone else who has it.

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#17 [url]

May 19 16 9:28 PM

Ya fair enough

and that is generally one of the really big flaws in anarchist thinking

...and to be frank: The comic may claim that its advocating libertarianism, even if its extreme libertarianism - but as a European - I don't see the difference between that and pure anarchy,and objectivism if that's also taken to its extreme, at least not in how the comic is portraying things: We never get to see how their monetary system really works, so how anyone does anything above bartering is beyond me, and with what looks like nano-replication tech in every household... who the fuck knows. Plus I chiefly know about 'extreme' objectivism via the Bioshock game, which I think matches how the anarchic utopia runs things quite well: nobody can really stop a business from doing fucked up things (which is actually how the comic reasons that they have all the super tech) and everyone's looking out for number one, which is how everything turned to shit. Hell, the bioshock 1 setting is pretty much how I'd think such an anarchist society would devolve.

and yes, the crime examples you give are great at demonstrating how stupid anarchist utopias like that are. Hell, towards the end the bad guys damn near win because of thus - they're only defeated because of a deus ex machina asspull from the good guys, combined with a full frontal assault on the bad guy's compound (which curiously has no armed guards, automated sentry-bots or anything, how convenient)

Hell, they say that if a crime is done the the criminal and the victim both have to agree on a judge, or they can just duel each other to the death with pistols. Gee, I wonder if a crack-shot criminal doesn't want to bother with court which he'll find more enticing.

and your example with business works too - especially when you factor in the nano-replication tech. Hell, why would you ever need to even buy anything if you can just tell your nano-machines to make you a sandwich and then make you a house?! This is never explained, and yet at one point we're told that you need to work for about 3-4 weeks to buy a car.


as for how britain didn't reconquer the place? Fuck if I know. Again, a plothole the size of mainland America.

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SmashLampjaw

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May 27 16 6:53 PM

I am not an Objectivist but I've actually read a good part of Rand's material on it. You should form your opinions of things based on of the actual source material, not off of someone's interpretation or criticism of it. Objectivism is not anarchistic; Bioshock got it wrong if that's what they were trying to depict. Ayn Rand was explicit about... well, everything she said, and usually in mind-numbingly-specific, unambiguous detail... and she ruled out the idea of eliminating the government and/or privatizing its services because police would easily become a weapon of whoever had the most money. (Which actually happened in the comic we're discussing, come to think of it.) There are a few quotes on this page that prove this comic is not in line with Objectivism. The pro-government stuff is three sentences starting with "The only proper purpose", and "The fundamental difference" starts a pair of paragraphs detailing the way to structure a proper government and how it should interact with citizens. I'd post them inline but I think we're already close to a derail at this point. Both of them are completely out of line with the comic's statement of, "The government that governs least governs best. Therefor no government is the best government."

Anyhow, moving much more on-topic, I'm completely in agreement with you on anarchist utopia fantasy comics. They rely on plot holes to portray their societies as anything but the shitholes they'd actually devolve into. I actually finished the Probability Broach about a week ago but forgot to comment. The only credit I'll give the comic is at least Hamilton pointed out the society's an-cap idiocy literally forbade them to stop him from doing what he was doing. What the hell would have happened if the plucky protagonist team had been killed? The protection of society is just left up to the chance some other group of unorganized, likely untrained private citizens will all find out about it and decide to risk their lives?

So some other crappy things in this comic...

My earlier example about "Who untangles a situation when there are no police" almost happened when Win charges into a beauty parlor with his gun drawn. Imagine if he was shot to death. What happens? Odds are his body gets burned for fuel. What if whats-her-name, the old lady, was a minute behind him, saw him shot to death, and wasted everyone in the beauty parlor? Don't misread me, I'm even hinting that I am concerned with the people in this panel pulling guns on a threatening armed stranger who burst in on them. I'm saying this scenario is one of the reasons why you can't eliminate police. There has to be a universally recognized authority to deescalate conflicts like this.

In this comic, all police forces are private, which means if the only people who even know Win all die or are kidnapped, it's in the police's best interest to do nothing because 1) he's already dead anyways and 2) they're not getting paid regardless of the outcome. If the old lady wound up wasting some of the women who killed Win, it's likely either all of the survivors are on the don't-trade-with-them shitlist or at least some of them are, and there's no central authority to appeal to in order to get off the list.

The comic is decent science-fiction in some cases, but terrible politics. It introduces its fictional science rules early-on and is mostly consistent with them (except that the man-sized portal that explodes over the park is less devastating than the pencil-sized one that ends the comic), much of the technology is reasonable... but then the anarchist-capitalist politics get involved and you've got talking monkeys and dolphin physicists, with a hand-waved explanation of "Anything is possible when you're free." The comic just gets completely up its own asshole with some of this stuff we're expected to believe happened faster with a society where every single person can mint their own currency.

Another thing: Greenland shouldn't have had to wait 30 years to join the Confederacy. They should have just declared they were adopting what passed for its rules and were now a part of it. How hard is it to merge the non-existent governments of two an-cap general millings of peoples? What, were they worried their non-laws would conflict? Their non-taxes would overlap? Their non-citizens would have dual-non-citizenship that might result in confusing conflicts about which non-laws a mutually selected arbiter will apply?

I could forgive it for being stupid; I wouldn't call a comic bad just because it depicts something I see as being impossible. People can make a well-reasoned, logical argument and simply be wrong without being idiots or liars. What makes this a decidedly bad comic are the numerous scenes where we're beaten to death with one-sided discussions and strawmen. What really clenches it is these diatribes often come from people who should have no reason to be as informed about an alternate dimension as they are. It crosses the line between promotion of ideas and hamfisted proselytizing, burns the land the line stood on to ashes, salts the earth, and then drives into the distance never looking back again. I don't even like the presentation of the two arguments in this that I agree with. I'd still call the comic bad if I agreed with everything it represented due to how poorly it delivered them.

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#19 [url]

May 27 16 11:08 PM

Smash - I get what you claim on behalf of Randian philosophy...

But that doesn't mean that idiots like the git who made this comic respect that. They take Rand's already extreme views, and take them to a logical end-point. They say "If less government is good, then no government is best"

I recently butted heads with some an-cap liberals on youtube - and trust me: they don't give a fuck about how logically inconsistent this shit is.

One of them basically went: "I don't have to explain to you how an an-cap society would work - just read this [link to 26 page political manifesto] and then you'll believe me"

For some reason the joker didn't really seem to get it when I drew an amusing parallel between his behavior and that of a cultist trying to get someone to read their religious scripture.

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SmashLampjaw

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May 27 16 11:20 PM

Yes, but in fairness the idiots who made this comic explicitly stated their inspiration were libertarian ideals. I'm not sure why you're making the "you can take anything to extremes" argument and applying it to any philosophy other than the one they said they were doing.

Edit: Just to be clear, my link wasn't to sell you on Objectivism (I'm not sold on it, myself) but to point out anarchy is not a logical extreme of Objectivism. I may as well just quote the parts I mentioned. This thread seems to be winding down at the moment.
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The only proper purpose of a government is to protect man’s rights, which means: to protect him from physical violence. A proper government is only a policeman, acting as an agent of man’s self-defense, and, as such, may resort to force only against those who start the use of force. The only proper functions of a government are: the police, to protect you from criminals; the army, to protect you from foreign invaders; and the courts, to protect your property and contracts from breach or fraud by others, to settle disputes by rational rules, according to objective law.
The fundamental difference between private action and
governmental action—a difference thoroughly ignored and evaded today—lies in the fact that a government holds a monopoly on the legal use of physical force. It has to hold such a monopoly, since it is the agent of restraining and combating the use of force; and for that very same reason, its actions have to be rigidly defined, delimited and circumscribed; no touch of whim or caprice should be permitted in its performance; it should be an impersonal robot, with the laws as its only motive power. If a society is to be free, its government has to be controlled.

Under a proper social system, a private individual is legally free to take any action he pleases (so long as he does not violate the rights of others), while a government official is bound by law in his every official act. A private individual may do anything except that which is legally forbidden; a government official may do nothing except that which is legally permitted.

Last Edited By: SmashLampjaw May 29 16 7:30 PM. Edited 1 time.

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