Remove this ad

avatar

ohitsyou

Living Spambot

Posts: 501

#41 [url]

Oct 19 16 1:03 PM

UglyHyena wrote:
While I agree with your reasoning that everybody should be let to their own devices as long as they are not hurting anybody, I strongly disagree with sexuality and attraction being a choice... if it was, then I would be able to get rid of my penchant for getting crushes. It'd make my life so much easy.

Not to mention, what about say, gay kids in hyperconservative homes around the world? Are they gay out of an act of teenage rebellion? Is getting killed in some countries the newest fad? Like, if it was something they could prevent or change, why aren't they doing it and saving themselves the trouble?

If sexuality is a choice, then is being a furry on the same level than being gay or bi? Do I have to come out to my family as an anthropomorphic hyena?

(The answer is no because I am not a hyena, "furry" is just a fandom I choose to be part of and that would be stupid)

People do a lot of weird things in the world. There is propably a straight gut out there who collects Precious Moment dolls. Does he like doing it? Yes. If he got caught would he get his ass kicked by someone who says he is a sissy? Maybe. If getting his ass kicked, and still collected them, does that mean its not a choice to collect them? Of course its his choice to collect them. Something about it attracts him to it and he likes doing it. Heck, he might get bored with it and stop collecting. I mean, dont certain people get bored with certain sex acts? How is that not the same thing? There both interests for goodness sake. 

One problem is that we glorify sex WAY too much in this society and put it on a pedestal. Don't get me wrong, I see the importance of sex, but at the end of the day, sex is just an act, just like how collecting precious moment dolls is an act. You can choose the acts you want to perform in life, and no gene is going to tell me other wise.

If you ask me, the problem is not accepting gay people, its that accepting that sex is in itself a mundane act that we make more important then it actually is.

However, there is one thing I do need to explain, and that is that I view the whole "gay is not a choice" angle that plebcomics believes in to be dangerous. Why? Becuase it dosent matter how well you can explain things, you will always have opposition. And the best to combat your oppontents is to have strong arguments, and saying "gay is not a choice" is not just weak, its exploitable.

There is an article by Nick Cohen called "Gay People are not Genetic Aberrations" that explains why it is wrong that people think being gay is not a choice. He used an example of a trial that tried to use genetics as the reason a man named Steven Mobley murdered his manager.I have never forgotten hearing Jones talk about the case of Stephen Mobley, who murdered the manager of a Georgia pizza parlour in 1991.His lawyers tried to save him from lethal injection by arguing he was not responsible for his action because he had a gene that predisposed him to violence. George W Bush's Texas responded by ruling that anyone deemed to be a continuing threat to society would be liable for execution. Liberal lawyers proposed that a defendant's genes were his destiny. Conservatives said: "Thank you for that; the only thing to do is kill him, then."To put it another way – if you go along with crude reductionism, you can expect to find yourself at the mercy of crude reductionists.
If youre explanation to an argument is a self fufilling prophecy, dont be suprised if youre oppontents takes advantage of that claim.

The best way to defend gay people is to give them lots of options. Give them more than one reason why they may be attracted to people, be it hair, face, gender etc. Or let the explanation be that choose this lifestyle and it makes them happy, and leave it at that. Don't let the only options be "They didnt choose to be gay" becuase that defense can easily be broken, becuase the statement itself is fatalist; there is no critical thinking. Remember, the conservatives were the ones who believed that being gay is not a choice and pumped them full of drugs to "cure" them. 

So help gay people out becuase there people, not becuase they can't help themselves with who they have sex with. There not sexually retarded.

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad

#42 [url]

Oct 19 16 1:24 PM

"Sex" and "crush" are not the same thing... I've had multitude of crushes in my life and I am a 22-year-old virgin. I don't care bc I find sex icky, but ya know, I choose to. Or rather, I choose not to do anything about it.

There is propably a straight gut out there who collects Precious Moment dolls.

Dude, don't get me wrong but I don't thing that counts as an equivalence. Does he get all nervous when he is near a doll he likes? Does he start feeling like his legs are about to give out, that his heartbeat got faster, that he got his stomach in a knot and is about to pass out but he cannot get away from the place either bc his body is not responding? Does he find himself staring intensely at the doll when distracted? Does he follow the doll around like a lost puppy?

Does he spend 6 years building up the courage to buy the doll and when he goes to the cashier and tells them "would you give me that doll, please?" and the cashier just laughs and says "heh, not to you", does he feel his heart shattering into a million pieces and then spends the next 5 or 6 years being haunted by that memory?

Does he lose sleep even years after that thinking "what could I have done different..."?

Unless he is REALLY obsessed with dolls (in which case, he should see a therapist ASAP), the answer is probably no.

Or let the explanation be that choose this lifestyle and it makes them happy, and leave it at that.

Trying to twist a fact to win an argument, doesn't matter if you have the best intentions, is all kinds of wrong. And if my internet connection was better right now, I'd defend my argument.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

ohitsyou

Living Spambot

Posts: 501

#43 [url]

Oct 19 16 1:34 PM

UglyHyena wrote:
"Sex" and "crush" are not the same thing... I've had multitude of crushes in my life and I am a 22-year-old virgin. I don't care bc I find sex icky, but ya know, I choose to. Or rather, I choose not to do anything about it.

There is propably a straight gut out there who collects Precious Moment dolls.

Dude, don't get me wrong but I don't thing that counts as an equivalence. Does he get all nervous when he is near a doll he likes? Does he start feeling like his legs are about to give out, that his heartbeat got faster, that he got his stomach in a knot and is about to pass out but he cannot get away from the place either bc his body is not responding? Does he find himself staring intensely at the doll when distracted? Does he follow the doll around like a lost puppy?

Does he spend 6 years building up the courage to buy the doll and when he goes to the cashier and tells them "would you give me that doll, please?" and the cashier just laughs and says "heh, not to you", does he feel his heart shattering into a million pieces and then spends the next 5 or 6 years being haunted by that memory?

Does he lose sleep even years after that thinking "what could I have done different..."?

Unless he is REALLY obsessed with dolls (in which case, he should see a therapist ASAP), the answer is probably no.

Or let the explanation be that choose this lifestyle and it makes them happy, and leave it at that.

Trying to twist a fact to win an argument, doesn't matter if you have the best intentions, is all kinds of wrong. And if my internet connection was better right now, I'd defend my argument.

Yes, the Precious Moment dolls thing is an equilvalent. Everyone has different interest, some more stronger then the other. In other words, some people would be more interested in doll collecting then they would their sex life. Case in point: I'm pretty damn skippy that Dave Willis feels the same way about Transformer collecting as youre explanation for love. And for all the weird shit that Willis believes in, his toy collecting is propably the least of his worries. Yeah, he's annoying about it, but hey, its his life. Sorry, but sex is not the most important thing in everyone life choices.

I'm not twisting the facts. I'm just stating that feelings are subjective. Being gay is not an objective fact. I do not see whats so wrong about it, or damaging about it. Its better then saying you cant change who you are no matter how hard you try. 

 

Quote    Reply   

#44 [url]

Oct 19 16 1:42 PM

Look at the things you make me admit, for goodness sake!

I'm not twisting the facts. I'm just stating that feelings are subjective. Being gay is not an objective fact. I do not see whats so wrong about it, or damaging about it. Its better then saying you cant change who you are no matter how hard you try.

What? Attraction is a chemical reaction! Of course it is objective, you can have a crush or you can have not. There is no in-between. The subjective part is who you got a crush on.

Also yeah, you can't change it. Otherwise I'd have no reason to be taking meds. Depression is a choice! The reason I've spent almost a year since the last time I wanted to kill myself is because I chose so. The meds had nothing to do with it, in fact, frick meds! Who needs them.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

ohitsyou

Living Spambot

Posts: 501

#45 [url]

Oct 19 16 2:06 PM

UglyHyena wrote:
Look at the things you make me admit, for goodness sake!

I'm not twisting the facts. I'm just stating that feelings are subjective. Being gay is not an objective fact. I do not see whats so wrong about it, or damaging about it. Its better then saying you cant change who you are no matter how hard you try.

What? Attraction is a chemical reaction! Of course it is objective, you can have a crush or you can have not. There is no in-between. The subjective part is who you got a crush on.

Also yeah, you can't change it. Otherwise I'd have no reason to be taking meds. Depression is a choice! The reason I've spent almost a year since the last time I wanted to kill myself is because I chose so. The meds had nothing to do with it, in fact, frick meds! Who needs them.

We are not talking about Chemistry. We are talking about feelings. A crush is a subjective feeling that can change. Its not an objective fact. If you want to be technical, it was a fact that you had a crush at one time. However, it is not a fact that you still have a crush. Youre not a formula, youre a person.

Facts do not care about your feelings. However, that dosent mean I think youre  crush is less important then facts. There are times when feelings are more important then facts.

Youre kind of going extreme here. Depression is a medical condition; having sex with a person of the same sex is not. As Ive said, gay people are not sexually retarded.

Anyway, I think we are getting off topic. All I wanted to do was to see if I could maybe do a review of Plebcomics. My reason being that while she can use critical thinking, she seems to lose it when it involves feelings about gender. It might be controversial about what I talk about, but dont worry, I'm not 4chan or Encolopedia Dramatica; I just wanted to see if I could write a review that would be slightly taboo, by questioning how we view sexuality in society. If the answer is going to be no, then I'll stop posting about ideas that I have about sexuality. I dont want to de rail this forum thread much longer.

Quote    Reply   

#46 [url]

Oct 19 16 2:12 PM

However, it is not a fact that you still have a crush

...and what gives you that idea, mister?

Anyway, I think we are getting off topic.

Yeah. Don't worry, tho, I am much less angry than I sound. In fact I am enjoying the debate, if you wanna keep talking we can make another thread about it.

Quote    Reply   

#47 [url]

Oct 19 16 3:26 PM

Now that I've come back to my senses, it mortifies me that Yuku, oh the ever-so-loving Yuku, won't let me modify my more, ehm, heated posts to save myself from public shame. If you need me, I'm getting a paper bag to cover my face. I'm such an idiot.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Sindy

Living Spambot

Posts: 833

#48 [url]

Oct 19 16 3:34 PM

It's okay. Noone currently knows which ones are your posts.
THEY GAVE YOU ANONYMITY FOR A DAY AND LOOK WHAT YOU DID WITH IT.





Think about that for a while.

Quote    Reply   

#50 [url]

Oct 19 16 6:49 PM

 It's okay. Noone currently knows which ones are your posts.
THEY GAVE YOU ANONYMITY FOR A DAY AND LOOK WHAT YOU DID WITH IT.

This is either another pointless Internet argument that will be forgotten/purged or one of those legendary threads that we'll all remember and have a good laugh about.

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
avatar

Sindy

Living Spambot

Posts: 833

#52 [url]

Oct 20 16 1:20 AM

Does he get all nervous when he is near a doll he likes? Does he start feeling like his legs are about to give out, that his heartbeat got faster, that he got his stomach in a knot and is about to pass out but he cannot get away from the place either bc his body is not responding? Does he find himself staring intensely at the doll when distracted? Does he follow the doll around like a lost puppy?

Does he spend 6 years building up the courage to buy the doll and when he goes to the cashier and tells them "would you give me that doll, please?" and the cashier just laughs and says "heh, not to you", does he feel his heart shattering into a million pieces and then spends the next 5 or 6 years being haunted by that memory?


Me with rare items in MMOs.


Anyway.
ohitsyou, while I agree the comic became retarded and the author has NO. FUCKING. IDEA. how to prove her own strawmen wrong, I dooooooooooooon't think -you- should write the review.

I've noticed in all your related posts that you have a VERY strange view on sexuality and gender orientation and psychology. Shit, you aren't even able to differentiate between the FEELING of attraction and ACTING on it.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but I doubt anyone will be happy to have a pretentious 2deep4u article on here. Take it to tumblr.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

Sindy

Living Spambot

Posts: 833

#53 [url]

Oct 20 16 2:07 AM

(adding to my post, to make Hyena feel better about her own heat of the moment posts)

Look, I'll try to explain one last time.
There's the ATTRACTION, and there's the ACTION.

Attraction goes like:
Irrational brain: You want babies with your history teacher.
Rational brain: No I fucking don't, I'm jailbait and he's like 44 and married.
IB: Fine, how about this guy?
RB: That's a guy I'm sitting behind in line, I'll never see him again.
IB: Fiiiiine. OOOHHH! Look at this blond hunk!
RB: Dude, that's a fucking metal lead singer. On a poster. I can't-
IB: Mmmmmm get a load of THIS guy.
RB: He's fictional and made of polygons!
IB: But don't you want to be with him forever?
RB: It can't even happ-
IB: Okay you're now fantasizing of being sandwiched between him and his brother.
RB: I DON'T EVEN LIKE THREESOMES. AND I THINK IT QUALIFIES AS INCEST???
IB: TOO BAD, BITCH. KEEP FANTASIZING OF IT.

Action goes like:
Actually dating your history teacher.
Actually asking that dude's number.
Being an insane chick that sneaks backstage and rapes the singer.
However the fuck you go around to having a threesome with two fictional men.
All your examples.

I'm getting the hunch you're not experiencing the attraction phase and thus unable to understand it. It's okay. Some people lack empathy, some lack this, some lack dreams, some lack whatever. But it's not the society that is wrong, if this IS the case. It's your brain chemistry. I envy you if you seriously have no irrational physical attraction to anyone or anything. That shit is a bitch.
But other people DO experience it and no, you can't help it.You can only help acting on it.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

ohitsyou

Living Spambot

Posts: 501

#54 [url]

Oct 20 16 4:39 AM

Sindy wrote:
(adding to my post, to make Hyena feel better about her own heat of the moment posts)

Look, I'll try to explain one last time.
There's the ATTRACTION, and there's the ACTION.

Attraction goes like:
Irrational brain: You want babies with your history teacher.
Rational brain: No I fucking don't, I'm jailbait and he's like 44 and married.
IB: Fine, how about this guy?
RB: That's a guy I'm sitting behind in line, I'll never see him again.
IB: Fiiiiine. OOOHHH! Look at this blond hunk!
RB: Dude, that's a fucking metal lead singer. On a poster. I can't-
IB: Mmmmmm get a load of THIS guy.
RB: He's fictional and made of polygons!
IB: But don't you want to be with him forever?
RB: It can't even happ-
IB: Okay you're now fantasizing of being sandwiched between him and his brother.
RB: I DON'T EVEN LIKE THREESOMES. AND I THINK IT QUALIFIES AS INCEST???
IB: TOO BAD, BITCH. KEEP FANTASIZING OF IT.

Action goes like:
Actually dating your history teacher.
Actually asking that dude's number.
Being an insane chick that sneaks backstage and rapes the singer.
However the fuck you go around to having a threesome with two fictional men.
All your examples.

I'm getting the hunch you're not experiencing the attraction phase and thus unable to understand it. It's okay. Some people lack empathy, some lack this, some lack dreams, some lack whatever. But it's not the society that is wrong, if this IS the case. It's your brain chemistry. I envy you if you seriously have no irrational physical attraction to anyone or anything. That shit is a bitch.
But other people DO experience it and no, you can't help it.You can only help acting on it.

Oh, I understand how attraction works. However, attraction is not a permanent state of mind. You can, you know, get bored or frustrated and not be attracted by the person/idea anymore. You can say you have no control, but frankly, thats kind of a cop-out; you can say you dont understand youre feelings, but I understand why I am attracted to the things I like. I like the sound, I like the color, I like the philosophy etc. I can examine my likes and dislikes to understand my attraction better. Maybe its becuase Ive failed so much in life that I have done constant introspection, but you can examine yourself and figure out why you like and dislike things, at least thats how I feel. Not saying I'm right, but thats what Ive learned from my experience.

I appreciate the input that maybe I should not do the review. I would still like to do it, but it is possible I am wrong in my assesment, and this would be labled as the "worst review" on the bad webcomics wiki. Yeah, I may feel I have good ideas, but its possible I dont, and I would of just embarrased myself. So really, thanks for the input.

Quote    Reply   

#55 [url]

Oct 21 16 2:10 PM

You know, one thing that has NOT been mentioned yet about this comic strip is its second unusual take on strawmen. It's stated here that these are actual arguments by crazy people, but it's also the way they're drawn...the straw characters are (almost always) female and they're usually modestly attractive (in fact, at least one was redrawn because of her popularity), whereas the character that calls out the strawmen is some bizarre half-naked woman with pasties, a cape, Shutter Shades, and mens underwear.

In most works, the author is always presented as intelligent and generally better, whereas the straw characters are either bitter (at best) or hideous-looking.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

ohitsyou

Living Spambot

Posts: 501

#56 [url]

Oct 21 16 2:37 PM

Well, it is a tumblr comic at the end of the say, so of course the pretty people are strawmen, and the normies are ugly.

Anyway, I forgot to mention this comic. Its...pretty weird? Surreal? I can't tell.

http://plebcomics.tumblr.com/tagged/while-i-simultaneously-stand-in-protest-for-the-protection-of-women-who-have-been-violated-and-harmed

This comics is based on an incident with Lauren Southern, a liberaterian activist who argued with a bunch of SJW activist in Vancouver about how there were only two genders. This comic is pretty spot-on with what happened, but that is what makes it so strange. Yeah, its good that you can recognize the hypocrisy of SJW's. but you are doing nothing to diffuse Southern remarks how there are only two genders. Heck, the comic makes Southern look like the good guy, in that she isnt portrayed as arrogant, but more confident and self-assured that what she is saying is right. The SJW protestors are not even portrayed as right with their argument. They sound less furious and more unconfident in their own remarks. Like I said, glad Pleb can recognize hypocrisy, but she is making her gender issue look bad, not just by showing hypocirsy, but in showing that they don't even have a strong argument against Southern. Its almost like Pleb supports gender/tran issues, but dosent believe in her own claims, saying she will protect them, but also saying that their wrong. At least question Southern claim in the comic, it dosent even do that!


 

Quote    Reply   

#57 [url]

Oct 22 16 7:48 AM

The point is that Southern is right, and the SJW are wrong.

But yeah, I agree, it is impossible to tell from the comic. You are supposed to side with Southern, but really, the comic is just presenting what happened with no comment. No final panel where Pleb steps in to call the SJWs on their hypocrisy, no Southern calling them out, no nothing. I mean, on the plus side, it lets you draw your own conclusions, on the other side... it is too open-ended. Like come on! At least say something about it that is not in the tags! Let the comics stand up by themselves, Pleb! It feels like a missed opportunity!

Last Edited By: UglyHyena Oct 22 16 8:11 AM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   
avatar

ohitsyou

Living Spambot

Posts: 501

#58 [url]

Oct 22 16 10:59 AM

I have an idea; if I dropped the "choosing gender" issue I have with this comic,could I maybe do the review? Eh, it would be for the best. After all, restraining yourself is good for the creative process. Cuz even if I take away the gender issue, there is so much wrong with Plebcomics.

1. To focused on SJW's: Yeah, I'm not saying we should dismiss all their actions and words, but there is way too much focus on what the SJW's do. Yeah, they say a lot of stupid things, but what do you expect? There a group of extremist, of course they say a lot of stupid things! But you can only pull that rabbit out of the bag so many times before you roll your eyes of how predicible. Try other policies and stuff. If a gamergate comic gets old, why would this one fare better? Yeah, I understand her main beef with them, but being so focused on them just makes her sound like she has autism.

2. Strawman feel purdy!: As someone pointed out on this forum, the strawmen are usually attractive, and the non-strawmen are not. It just makes it feel more like a tumblr comic. Like, all pretty people are evil and petty, and not pretty people are rightous and open-minded! Its just ironic that an anti-sjw comic would use the same tactics as a pro-sjw comic. Then again, it is a tumblr comic.
Also, uses strawmen way too damn much. I dont care if someone actually did say this, it just gets old using the same tactic.

3. You defend them, but feel that their wrong?: While she disagrees with a lot of what the SJW's say, she seems have the same beliefs when it comes to trans rights. However, when trans rights get brought up, she provides an emotional response, not an analyitical response. Its almost feels like she dosent actually agree with trans right, but defends them out of pity. I know what Ive said in the past about tranny's (sue me, I got bored with saying trans.) but thats my point; her comic is not helping her cause, its only hurting it!

4. Super Special Snowflake Shift Stand-In Stike-u!: Yeah, this one petty, but Ive never been a fan of overly wacky character stand in. She looks like a homestuck character dressing up for the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Hope this is good enough list to tackle while not the worse webcomic, still a problematic one that needs some good old fashion criticism!

Last Edited By: ohitsyou Oct 22 16 11:21 AM. Edited 1 time.

Quote    Reply   

#60 [url]

Oct 23 16 12:44 PM

If you do review it, you should remember that its already been rebooted once

She once got doxxed, which resulted in her losing her job (she supposedly willingly quit to make the doxxers stop harassing her then employer) and she even briefly shut down the plebcomics account.

The one up now is the reboot, which focuses more on SJWs in general - while the original was far more heavily pro-Gamergate in its content.

Hell, the tumblr acount set up by her doxxers is still there because tumblr... tumblr doesn't give a fuck: http://plebdox.tumblr.com/


And as for ohitsyou's point nr 4: AFAIK then that's to point out how she just doesn't take the shit that seriously - her MO has AFAIK always been to take the piss on people on who take shit waaaaaay too seriously.

Quote    Reply   
Remove this ad
Add Reply

Quick Reply

bbcode help