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#61 [url]

Oct 23 16 1:15 PM

webkilla >> Hell, the tumblr acount set up by her doxxers is still there because tumblr... tumblr doesn't give a fuck: http://plebdox.tumblr.com/

How disgusting.

webkilla >> She once got doxxed, which resulted in her losing her job (she supposedly willingly quit to make the doxxers stop harassing her then employer) and she even briefly shut down the plebcomics account. The one up now is the reboot, which focuses more on SJWs in general - while the original was far more heavily pro-Gamergate in its content.

Honestly tho, after this info and what oddguy said a few posts ago, I kinda believe that if you get involved with any polarized cause, you gotta be prepared for the worst. Use proxies or VPNs to mask your IP address so you can't be tracked back to your hometown, don't post your info online under any circumstance, vary your usernames and passwords, don't link accounts, don't interact with anyone you know IRL while using those accounts, don't post pictures you post on your personal accounts, basically render yourself untraceable. Or at least, don't complain when they find your phone number...

Ya know, this brings a funny thought: Don't teach people how not to get doxxed, teach people not to dox! That'd totally work! And anyone that doesn't agree is doxx-enabling scum.

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Sindy

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#62 [url]

Oct 23 16 2:20 PM

I was doxed some 10 years ago. Had a "I'll come to your house and rape you" guy. Told him my schedule and to watch out for the dog. Suffice to say, nothing happened.

I've been a bit cocky in this aspect since. To begin with, I'm also two countries away from SJWers. Worst they can do is order me pizza, and they'd have to learn a foreign language for that. The absolute worst they can do is get you fired - and if you don't post your employer publicly, they can't do shit in this aspect.

The majority of people that get doxed are people who put their full name, phone, address or employer somewhere. I've seen 99 idiots who had them listed on facebook or who gave them freely to random people to every 1 person that had all their accounts hacked and the info ripped that way when it comes to doxing. Not counting viruses and actual hackers here.
You shouldn't post this stuff online at all, let alone if you're afraid of consequences or want to be controversial.

Unrelated story time: I had a stalker at one point. Someone I initially trusted and was friends with, but they turned out to be a total creeper. He knew my address and I wasn't gonna move. He also knew all my social accounts (MMOs, social media, deviantart, e-mails, you name it). Every time I'd interact with someone or log on one of these, he'd call me, send me snail mail with a list of times and dates or show up at my door to argue.
Eventually I made a separate online persona for myself - new e-mail, fake name, made new accounts everywhere I frequented, restarted my MMOing from scratch on completely new accounts and servers (reason I specifically mention them is because he was worst when I did things I enjoyed - like play or post/interact with people on deviantart. Dude had issues. He wanted to be the only one to make me happy and took my gaming and drawing as such a personal threat that I laugh now, but it was creepy and exhausting for the 3 years until I figured he would never stop that shit and decided to dodge him). Been leading a "double online life" since - people I trust know both, online people know the info linked to my secondary accounts, and family and employers have my other info. I'm not even using a fake name anymore, just not giving info away.
It's effortless to keep information hidden or to create an online persona. Even stuff like money - you can just bounce them through a paypal that has no identifying info to your real paypal. If you're that scared, it's worth the transfer fees.

So having dealt with it myself, I find myself short on empathy when people post their personal info in public places then cry that it's been found.
You want to be controversial, or are paranoid, make a fucking account with no address/phone/employer/whatever details. Simple as that.

Last Edited By: Sindy Oct 23 16 2:58 PM. Edited 2 times.

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#63 [url]

Oct 23 16 2:39 PM

ohitsyou wrote:
I have an idea; if I dropped the "choosing gender" issue I have with this comic,could I maybe do the review? Eh, it would be for the best. After all, restraining yourself is good for the creative process. Cuz even if I take away the gender issue, there is so much wrong with Plebcomics.

1. To focused on SJW's: Yeah, I'm not saying we should dismiss all their actions and words, but there is way too much focus on what the SJW's do. Yeah, they say a lot of stupid things, but what do you expect? There a group of extremist, of course they say a lot of stupid things! But you can only pull that rabbit out of the bag so many times before you roll your eyes of how predicible. Try other policies and stuff. If a gamergate comic gets old, why would this one fare better? Yeah, I understand her main beef with them, but being so focused on them just makes her sound like she has autism.

2. Strawman feel purdy!: As someone pointed out on this forum, the strawmen are usually attractive, and the non-strawmen are not. It just makes it feel more like a tumblr comic. Like, all pretty people are evil and petty, and not pretty people are rightous and open-minded! Its just ironic that an anti-sjw comic would use the same tactics as a pro-sjw comic. Then again, it is a tumblr comic.
Also, uses strawmen way too damn much. I dont care if someone actually did say this, it just gets old using the same tactic.

3. You defend them, but feel that their wrong?: While she disagrees with a lot of what the SJW's say, she seems have the same beliefs when it comes to trans rights. However, when trans rights get brought up, she provides an emotional response, not an analyitical response. Its almost feels like she dosent actually agree with trans right, but defends them out of pity. I know what Ive said in the past about tranny's (sue me, I got bored with saying trans.) but thats my point; her comic is not helping her cause, its only hurting it!

4. Super Special Snowflake Shift Stand-In Stike-u!: Yeah, this one petty, but Ive never been a fan of overly wacky character stand in. She looks like a homestuck character dressing up for the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Hope this is good enough list to tackle while not the worse webcomic, still a problematic one that needs some good old fashion criticism!
 

I used to browse Plebcomics pretty regularly for a while. Regarding #3, I think in one of the asks she mentioned she was bisexual and for a time actually lived as a male.

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sera234

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#64 [url]

Oct 23 16 2:47 PM

UglyHyena wrote:
webkilla >> Hell, the tumblr acount set up by her doxxers is still there because tumblr... tumblr doesn't give a fuck


 

Unless it's a porn art blog, because for some weird reason, tumblr can easily delete that, but not a doxxing site. 
Fuck this people.  

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ohitsyou

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#65 [url]

Oct 23 16 2:50 PM

webkilla wrote:
If you do review it, you should remember that its already been rebooted once

She once got doxxed, which resulted in her losing her job (she supposedly willingly quit to make the doxxers stop harassing her then employer) and she even briefly shut down the plebcomics account.

The one up now is the reboot, which focuses more on SJWs in general - while the original was far more heavily pro-Gamergate in its content.

Hell, the tumblr acount set up by her doxxers is still there because tumblr... tumblr doesn't give a fuck: http://plebdox.tumblr.com/


And as for ohitsyou's point nr 4: AFAIK then that's to point out how she just doesn't take the shit that seriously - her MO has AFAIK always been to take the piss on people on who take shit waaaaaay too seriously.

Yeah, I wasnt completely serious about #4. I partially did it out of for literation sakes. Honestly, she does the self insert better then most, becuase ignoring how she looks, she comes off as level headed and grounded. So yeah, her self insert does not annoy me that much. I'm just tired of the overly wacky self insert.

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SmashLampjaw

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#66 [url]

Oct 23 16 7:41 PM

I'm at a loss as you why I keep seeing references to who will do the review as if that's decided, when there's been virtually no discussion of that. This thread isn't even in the "Is This Comic Bad?" subtopic, which I am pretty sure I mentioned when I asked the first person talking about who should do the review where they got it in their head we were about to do one.

What really confuses the hell out of me, though, is why Pleb keeps getting accused of making strawmen. I've never seen her make a comic where she didn't link to the source conversation her comics were based on. Did any of you bother to confirm she wasn't depicting stupid asshats accurately? Because it's not a strawman if it's an accurate portrayal of something a real person said/did.

Last Edited By: SmashLampjaw Oct 23 16 8:03 PM. Edited 1 time.

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#67 [url]

Oct 24 16 12:29 AM

smash - I can answer you question very easily:

AFAIK, then the people who accuse Pleb of making strawmen tend to be the very SJWs she takes the piss on. Its that simple.

They don't think what they say is wrong, or deserving of being mocked.

example: observe the salt
http://plebcomics.tumblr.com/post/150911247998/hey-idk-if-you-know-or-not-but-plebcomics-is-super - the whole range of SJW slurs...

observe how based pleb is - she apparently has SJW friends IRL
http://plebcomics.tumblr.com/post/149224770873/i-find-it-funny-how-theres-people-who-just-sit

and finally observe the salt of her haters when she takes the piss on "sparkle children" OCs:
http://plebcomics.tumblr.com/post/149224245583/mr-soulbez-plebcomics-sebastianscloset

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#68 [url]

Oct 24 16 5:58 AM

SmashLampjaw wrote:
I'm at a loss as you why I keep seeing references to who will do the review as if that's decided, when there's been virtually no discussion of that. This thread isn't even in the "Is This Comic Bad?" subtopic, which I am pretty sure I mentioned when I asked the first person talking about who should do the review where they got it in their head we were about to do one.

What really confuses the hell out of me, though, is why Pleb keeps getting accused of making strawmen. I've never seen her make a comic where she didn't link to the source conversation her comics were based on. Did any of you bother to confirm she wasn't depicting stupid asshats accurately? Because it's not a strawman if it's an accurate portrayal of something a real person said/did.

Yeah, this is "Not Bad Webcomics", so I don't understand why some of you are readying a review. And Smash is right, a "strawman" is only a caricature that does not reflect a real argument.

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ohitsyou

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#69 [url]

Oct 24 16 6:06 AM

SmashLampjaw wrote:
I'm at a loss as you why I keep seeing references to who will do the review as if that's decided, when there's been virtually no discussion of that. This thread isn't even in the "Is This Comic Bad?" subtopic, which I am pretty sure I mentioned when I asked the first person talking about who should do the review where they got it in their head we were about to do one.

What really confuses the hell out of me, though, is why Pleb keeps getting accused of making strawmen. I've never seen her make a comic where she didn't link to the source conversation her comics were based on. Did any of you bother to confirm she wasn't depicting stupid asshats accurately? Because it's not a strawman if it's an accurate portrayal of something a real person said/did.

It may be accurate to say she dosent use strawmen, but her opponents do come of as strawmen; SJW's have become so shallow that nearly anything they say sounds like a strawman's argument, becuase they have transcended (decended?) mere mortals and have become strawmen. Its not about facts, its about feelings to SJW, and Pleb sometimes does a good job of pointing the ridicoulous of their beliefs. Sometimes Pleb does make good comics.

My problem is that what Pleb is doing is lazy; all she has to do is go on tumblr and find someone not well thought out post and make a comic out of it. Its so easy to find crazy and stupid things on the internet. To make someone look bad, all you have to do is go on a fan site and forum to find people's biased opinions. Its not hard to find crazy and stupid things to say if someone is an extremist. I'm not saying I dont take SJW seriously, but come on, there extremist. Of course there going to say crazy things! They look at the world in black and white, so of course you are going to find a bias. Its like finding crazy stuff that the KKK or BLM says, its not that hard. (Also, it is a possiblility that, you know, there trolls? Some people just get a kick out of peoples reactions.)

Also, when it comes to issue of trans rights, she has a hard time being objective. I mean, look at this comic.

http://plebcomics.tumblr.com/post/104609560803

All the comic does is show the stramen making a statement, and her oppontent just flipping her off. You are not helping your cause if you cant make a compelling argument and just use emotions to try and win an argument.

Last Edited By: ohitsyou Oct 24 16 6:29 AM. Edited 2 times.

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#70 [url]

Oct 24 16 8:27 AM

ohits - so your main beef is that she's not doing enough?

...but what if she doesn't want to do much more than that? Not everyone has the spare time to make 2-hour youtube vids where you discuss all kinds of shit in-depth and rip SJW bullshit to shreds.

I personally think that for her level of effort then most of her comics are quite funny and poke fun at exactly the right kind of people.

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BigBurkhart

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#71 [url]

Oct 24 16 12:28 PM

ohitsyou wrote:
It may be accurate to say she dosent use strawmen, but her opponents do come of as strawmen; SJW's have become so shallow that nearly anything they say sounds like a strawman's argument, becuase they have transcended (decended?) mere mortals and have become strawmen. Its not about facts, its about feelings to SJW, and Pleb sometimes does a good job of pointing the ridicoulous of their beliefs. Sometimes Pleb does make good comics.

My problem is that what Pleb is doing is lazy; all she has to do is go on tumblr and find someone not well thought out post and make a comic out of it. Its so easy to find crazy and stupid things on the internet. To make someone look bad, all you have to do is go on a fan site and forum to find people's biased opinions. Its not hard to find crazy and stupid things to say if someone is an extremist. I'm not saying I dont take SJW seriously, but come on, there extremist. Of course there going to say crazy things! They look at the world in black and white, so of course you are going to find a bias. Its like finding crazy stuff that the KKK or BLM says, its not that hard. (Also, it is a possiblility that, you know, there trolls? Some people just get a kick out of peoples reactions.)

Also, when it comes to issue of trans rights, she has a hard time being objective. I mean, look at this comic.

http://plebcomics.tumblr.com/post/104609560803

All the comic does is show the stramen making a statement, and her oppontent just flipping her off. You are not helping your cause if you cant make a compelling argument and just use emotions to try and win an argument.

"Poe's law is an Internet adage which states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, parodies of extreme views will be mistaken by some readers or viewers as sincere expressions of the parodied views."

This also works in reverse, because after people are subjected to enough parody, when someone actually does the stupid thing it's disregarded as fake. What's worse, people just blatantly throw out accusations of strawmanning when Pleb takes the courtesy of showing her citations. Actually, I've noticed a lot of that HERE, too...

Also, I really don't find any problem in the idea of using someone's words to incriminate themselves. While the formatting is done similarly to your standard strawman political comic, there are plenty of differences that make it not bad, including the previously mentioned citations. When Pleb does use an author avatar, it's done in a way to make herself as stupid-looking/unattractive as possible and smelling of Slim Jims. It tones back the sense of smugness that's usually present in these kinds of things, and shows that she's not really super serious about the whole thing. Plus, the only thing worse than being proven wrong is being proven wrong by a clown. On top of that, strawman comics tend to make the one who is supposed to be wrong as ugly as possible, but Pleb doesn't do that either. The arguments are put out there to stand by their own merits, unless of course the point is to show how shitty something looks (i.e. Tumblr Sephiroth).

As for that one comic you linked, is there really any need for anything else? Maybe that is a perfectly reasonable reaction to someone acting like a comepletely intolerant bitch and still having the temerity to claim that they have the moral high ground? Do you really need a 400 word essay on why that woman is an absolute cunt?

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ohitsyou

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#72 [url]

Oct 24 16 1:03 PM

webkilla wrote:
ohits - so your main beef is that she's not doing enough?

...but what if she doesn't want to do much more than that? Not everyone has the spare time to make 2-hour youtube vids where you discuss all kinds of shit in-depth and rip SJW bullshit to shreds.

I personally think that for her level of effort then most of her comics are quite funny and poke fun at exactly the right kind of people.

Yeah, its funny at first, but all she is doing is making fun of SJW. It just gets old making fun of obvious extremist. Pleb just needs more variety of people to make fun of, not just autistically focus on just one group. 

The problem is not that she is not doing enough, she is doing a bad job at it. How do I know she is doing a bad job at it? I'm not a big supporter of a lot of Trans issue.

I won't get into it, (you can find my opinions on other forums on this site.) but from how she portrays her beliefs, it works more in my favor then hers; she never gives a good counterargument Trans issues, as she comes off as making a emotional response, not a logical one. You can say I am a bad person for not supporting Trans issues, but if I am saying the opposition is doing a bad job framing their views, dosent that say something?  Just dont bring the subject up if youre doing a bad job at it.

If she framed the issue more as a logical rather then an emotional one, I would propably still disagree with what she says, but I would'nt comment that she is doing a bad job at protraying what she believes. I can give more examples to justify my claim.



As for that one comic you linked, is there really any need for anything else? Maybe that is a perfectly reasonable reaction to someone acting like a comepletely intolerant bitch and still having the temerity to claim that they have the moral high ground? Do you really need a 400 word essay on why that woman is an absolute cunt?

Flipping someone off is not a rebuttal, that is acting like a petulant child. Sorry, by doing that, youre basically saying the opposition has a point, so the best I can do is act on your feels.

Last Edited By: ohitsyou Oct 24 16 1:42 PM. Edited 2 times.

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SmashLampjaw

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#73 [url]

Oct 24 16 1:20 PM

I've always gotten the impression Pleb just casually browses tumblr and makes comments when she sees something particularly stupid. It's never struck me as an attempt to make a long-running comic.

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BigBurkhart

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#74 [url]

Oct 24 16 2:04 PM

ohitsyou wrote:

As for that one comic you linked, is there really any need for anything else? Maybe that is a perfectly reasonable reaction to someone acting like a comepletely intolerant bitch and still having the temerity to claim that they have the moral high ground? Do you really need a 400 word essay on why that woman is an absolute cunt?

Flipping someone off is not a rebuttal, that is acting like a petulant child. Sorry, by doing that, youre basically saying the opposition has a point, so the best I can do is act on your feels.

Are you actually serious? Are you actually saying that the person saying "I don't like what you are so I'm automatically assuming you're a pervert and that your motives are terrible and you're a misogynist" has a sound argument? That's as feels-based an argument as there has ever been. Not only is THAT argument completely feels-based, it's completely rooted in bigotry and should be casually dismissed as such. Hence, why the middle finger is appropriate. The original statement is snide, insulting, dismissive, disrespectful, and a whole laundry list of other nasty things, and essentially a non-argument. It's just hate. You don't try to reason with these people. You're not going to change the mind of someone completely set in their ways like that, but you can keep them from walking all over you. You just tell them to fuck off and enjoy the rest of your day.

Apparently you really do need a 400 word essay on why this person is terrible.

I've always gotten the impression Pleb just casually browses tumblr and makes comments when she sees something particularly stupid. It's never struck me as an attempt to make a long-running comic.

That's pretty much what I get out of it. Pleb probably just gets her point across better when drawing it, and wants to have a little bit of fun taking the piss out of people that really need the piss taken out of them.
 

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ohitsyou

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#75 [url]

Oct 24 16 2:12 PM

BigBurkhart wrote:

ohitsyou wrote:

As for that one comic you linked, is there really any need for anything else? Maybe that is a perfectly reasonable reaction to someone acting like a comepletely intolerant bitch and still having the temerity to claim that they have the moral high ground? Do you really need a 400 word essay on why that woman is an absolute cunt?

Flipping someone off is not a rebuttal, that is acting like a petulant child. Sorry, by doing that, youre basically saying the opposition has a point, so the best I can do is act on your feels.

Are you actually serious? Are you actually saying that the person saying "I don't like what you are so I'm automatically assuming you're a pervert and that your motives are terrible and you're a misogynist" has a sound argument? That's as feels-based an argument as there has ever been. Not only is THAT argument completely feels-based, it's completely rooted in bigotry and should be casually dismissed as such. Hence, why the middle finger is appropriate. The original statement is snide, insulting, dismissive, disrespectful, and a whole laundry list of other nasty things, and essentially a non-argument. It's just hate. You don't try to reason with these people. You're not going to change the mind of someone completely set in their ways like that, but you can keep them from walking all over you. You just tell them to fuck off and enjoy the rest of your day.

Apparently you really do need a 400 word essay on why this person is terrible.
 

Oh, I dont need an essay. You can make a point about how wrong the women is in a couple of sentences. But if all I get is just a middle finger without an explanation, how does that make you the right one? The women may be a dick for saying it, but the fact that the trans person says nothing to her and instead gives her a rude gesture, well, the feminist so far has a better point. Just a small explanation from the trans person would suffice. But nope, just emotions, like most debates these days.

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BigBurkhart

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#76 [url]

Oct 24 16 4:14 PM

The woman was saying a wordy "fuck you."

The trans girl was saying a much less wordy "well fuck you, too."

The comic isn't supposed to be some grand manifesto. It's short, and to the point. If you want political dialogue or a moral, it's not gonna be in this particular comic. The entire point of this one is just that some people think they're entirely justified in spouting their venom, and those same people need to be told to fuck off. It's not trying to put a lesson across. It's not trying to teach anything. It's venting anger in comic form.

Now, as far as I can tell, you're the only one that is seriously adamant about Plebcomics getting a review. I don't think it needs one, and I'm pretty sure most of us here enjoy it. I mean, it was put in the "Not Bad Comics" section for a reason. If you don't personally like them, fine. That's perfectly ok. However, most of your reasons why this comic is bad have been either refuted, like the strawman accusations, or just petty little stuff.

Last Edited By: BigBurkhart Oct 24 16 4:36 PM. Edited 1 time.

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ohitsyou

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#77 [url]

Oct 24 16 4:22 PM

BigBurkhart wrote:
The woman was saying a wordy "fuck you."

The trans girl was saying a much less wordy "well fuck you, too."

The comic isn't supposed to be some grand manifesto. It's short, and to the point. If you want political dialogue or a moral, it's not gonna be in this particular comic. The entire point of this one is just that some people think they're entirely justified in spouting their venom, and those same people need to be told to fuck off. It's not trying to put a lesson across. It's not trying to teach anything. It's venting anger in comic form.

Now, as far as I can tell, you're the only one that is seriously adamant about Plebcomics getting a review. I don't think it needs one, and I'm pretty sure most of us here enjoy it. I mean, it was put in the "Not Bad Comics" section for a reason. If you don't personally like them, fine. That's perfectly ok. However, most of your reasons why this comic is bad have been either refuted, like the strawman accusations, or just petty little stuff.

Honestly, I'm not that hardcore about it. As Ive said, I like what Plebcomics has done so far, the problem is when certain subjects arise, she cant make a congruent point. Also, it would be nice to do a review on something that would be a challenge, as there are parts of this comic that are good, but parts that are just bad. If I were to do a review, it would not be out of hatred, just constructive criticism towards Pleb.

The trans person is still in the losing argument though, as he did not even attempt a rebuttal. Put it to you this way, if this was a debate, who would win? The one who presented her case, while rude, actually had a congruent thought, or the person who just flipped the person off for not even attempting to defend himself? 

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ohitsyou

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#79 [url]

Oct 24 16 4:36 PM

BigBurkhart wrote:
I'm trying to get the point across that it's not a debate. Why are you treating it as such?

Its not a debate, I get that. The problem is that this comic is not helping her cause, just hurting it. It makes it seem like her side cant accept reality, and instead reacts with indignation rather then rational when confromted by someon else's claim. It does not make her side look good.

Just becuase someone acts like a jerk to you or your cause does not make that person wrong. You just have to react to it properly. If you don't, then your opponents can use reaction like this as evidence that your cause is not right of mind.

Last Edited By: ohitsyou Oct 24 16 4:58 PM. Edited 1 time.

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BigBurkhart

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#80 [url]

Oct 24 16 4:50 PM

One, you are not required to accept another person's reality. In fact, in the terms you put, reality is completely subjective, and therefore not worth accepting anyway.

Two, indignation in not an inappropriate response when someone walks up and insults you to your face.

Three, acting like a jerk does not make them wrong, but it doesn't play in their favor. Especially when their entire point is nothing but an assault on your character.

Four, what's it matter? The snide bitch is going to talk shit about that girl anyway, and there's no convincing someone like that that they are wrong. Instead of going through the fruitless endeavor of trying to get her to change her viewpoint it is much better for the girl's sanity to just tell the lady to fuck off.

Five, what part of "venting anger in comic form" did you not understand?

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