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MarsFire

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#21 [url]

Aug 22 16 8:04 PM

Fans writing reviews is a bad idea. 

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#22 [url]

Sep 8 16 11:45 PM

MarsFire wrote:
Fans writing reviews is a bad idea. 

It'll be fun to see how they spin it - if nothing else

and I'll readily admit that the review I wrote wasn't perfect - but ya, as a political cartoon it should be judged not on the politics it spouts, but how it spouts them - and if nothing else then I think in retrospect I should have focused more on the incredibly one-sided delivery that runs throughout the comic whenever a political topic comics up... because at no point are the people or ideas that RHJ makes fun of in the comic allowed to to present their own case. Its so very one-sided, plus it repeatedly abuses that good ol' trope of "wise children that magically see through bullshit and spout the 'correct' politics" - I can only think of Jay Naylor as a webcartoonist who use that trope more frequently

but ya, go ahead and rework the review - I would personally much rather have a go at his "The Probability Bomb" comic. It is far more overt with both his political and religious strawmanery (with the villain being an 'evil' scientist trying to prove evolution... which somehow involves destroying the universe because evil) - now that comic will be a lot easier to pick apart

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Long Tom

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#23 [url]

Sep 9 16 3:34 AM

webkilla wrote:

and I'll readily admit that the review I wrote wasn't perfect - but ya, as a political cartoon it should be judged not on the politics it spouts, but how it spouts them - and if nothing else then I think in retrospect I should have focused more on the incredibly one-sided delivery that runs throughout the comic whenever a political topic comics up... because at no point are the people or ideas that RHJ makes fun of in the comic allowed to to present their own case. Its so very one-sided, plus it repeatedly abuses that good ol' trope of "wise children that magically see through bullshit and spout the 'correct' politics" - I can only think of Jay Naylor as a webcartoonist who use that trope more frequently


Name me a political comic of any sort that doesn't do the same thing.  I Drew This did exactly the same thing.  And I reworked the review because you did commit the crime of attacking the politics and the author instead of how he did the webcomic.  But you don't have to be a right-winger to laugh at the joke about the otter spirit amd "what do otters eat?".

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MarsFire

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#24 [url]

Sep 9 16 11:59 AM

webkilla wrote:

 I would personally much rather have a go at his "The Probability Bomb" comic. It is far more overt with both his political and religious strawmanery (with the villain being an 'evil' scientist trying to prove evolution... which somehow involves destroying the universe because evil) - now that comic will be a lot easier to pick apart


Let me go ahead and make the actual plot a bit clearer. What the scientist steals is a device that magnifies possiblity. It takes things that normally have an infinantly negative chance of occuring and makes them very possible. It was meant to be a way of teleporting by messing with Probability and making something go from one place to another. Instead, the scientist wants to use it, find the "ideal planet", gather a bunch of "starter material" and make evolution happen by setting off the Probability Drive. RH Junior argues that such a device is required because the chance of evolution just naturally occuring in even the most ideal situation is 1 in (20^10)^256 = 20^-2560 = 10^-2560.log20 = 10^-3330. However, along the way are things that are much more likely to occur, such as the Universe ceasing to exist.

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#25 [url]

Sep 9 16 2:45 PM

MarsFire wrote:

webkilla wrote:

 I would personally much rather have a go at his "The Probability Bomb" comic. It is far more overt with both his political and religious strawmanery (with the villain being an 'evil' scientist trying to prove evolution... which somehow involves destroying the universe because evil) - now that comic will be a lot easier to pick apart


Let me go ahead and make the actual plot a bit clearer. What the scientist steals is a device that magnifies possiblity. It takes things that normally have an infinantly negative chance of occuring and makes them very possible. It was meant to be a way of teleporting by messing with Probability and making something go from one place to another. Instead, the scientist wants to use it, find the "ideal planet", gather a bunch of "starter material" and make evolution happen by setting off the Probability Drive. RH Junior argues that such a device is required because the chance of evolution just naturally occuring in even the most ideal situation is 1 in (20^10)^256 = 20^-2560 = 10^-2560.log20 = 10^-3330. However, along the way are things that are much more likely to occur, such as the Universe ceasing to exist.

that too

RHJ is basically going "evolution is so wrong that I'll present it as 'If you try to make evolution right, then you first have to fuck everything else up' and that is the only way it'll be presented, along with my own exceedingly strawmany explanations for why evolution is totally wrong"

Plus in the comic the super gary stu space-ranger who can't seem to do anything wrong tells stories of how the evil space RIAA brain-drained people, but were punished via execution through being shot from a canon into the moon, or how the government he works for somehow doesn't regulate anything yet has seemingly endless revenue streams to buy anything from anyone, because plot convenience.

but ya. Shitty political comic disguised as a sci-fi action comic. That's IMO what's worse about his Probabilty Bomb comic: The premise is really cool, and his usual Space Ranger comic is cool enough when it doesn't get overtly political (just like all his other comics) - but in this comic it is pretty much entirely about him getting up on his soapbox about how evolution is wrong and the people who support the notion are evil. 

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MarsFire

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#26 [url]

Sep 10 16 10:02 AM

webkilla wrote:

MarsFire wrote:

webkilla wrote:

 I would personally much rather have a go at his "The Probability Bomb" comic. It is far more overt with both his political and religious strawmanery (with the villain being an 'evil' scientist trying to prove evolution... which somehow involves destroying the universe because evil) - now that comic will be a lot easier to pick apart


Let me go ahead and make the actual plot a bit clearer. What the scientist steals is a device that magnifies possiblity. It takes things that normally have an infinantly negative chance of occuring and makes them very possible. It was meant to be a way of teleporting by messing with Probability and making something go from one place to another. Instead, the scientist wants to use it, find the "ideal planet", gather a bunch of "starter material" and make evolution happen by setting off the Probability Drive. RH Junior argues that such a device is required because the chance of evolution just naturally occuring in even the most ideal situation is 1 in (20^10)^256 = 20^-2560 = 10^-2560.log20 = 10^-3330. However, along the way are things that are much more likely to occur, such as the Universe ceasing to exist.

that too

RHJ is basically going "evolution is so wrong that I'll present it as 'If you try to make evolution right, then you first have to fuck everything else up' and that is the only way it'll be presented, along with my own exceedingly strawmany explanations for why evolution is totally wrong"

Plus in the comic the super gary stu space-ranger who can't seem to do anything wrong tells stories of how the evil space RIAA brain-drained people, but were punished via execution through being shot from a canon into the moon, or how the government he works for somehow doesn't regulate anything yet has seemingly endless revenue streams to buy anything from anyone, because plot convenience.

Webkiller, this is what we were talking about. You are letting your bias get in the way and you are not even being factual. What RH Junior is presenting is that Evolution is mathamaticly impossible, the 'starter materials" are so unstable that having them in enough quantity on the idea planet along with the perfect sequence of atomic interactions is so infantismaly impossible that even with a Probability Bomb you would be more liketly to create a Black Hole that swallows the Universe than kickstart evolution on that planet. If you disagree with this and can't look past it.. don't read it. It's also a commentary on how some scientists can become so fanatical about their beliefs in evolution that they will go to extremes to prove their beliefs. In real life, it's fugging data. Here, it's threatening the universe. You don't need religion to create a fanatic. 

Also, you are misusing the term 'strawman' again.

The second paragraph isn't even really about this comic but the character overall. Quenton Questor, Space Ranger (not his ancestor), does make mistakes. But he is a very seasoned Ranger with many missions and a whole lot of training under his belt. He mentions during the trial in "Cold Equeasion" that part of the training is that they put their recruis into impossible situations and told to complete it. And when they do (If they don't, they fail), the trainers then remove that solution and tell them to do it again. Over and over to test the Ranger's ability to think on their feet and force out fictory from the jaws of defeat. 

Same reason why Jason Bourn and John McClain are such bad asses. They earned that right. And no part of Ranger Quenton's actions are not explained to detail enough that it is entirely justified. 

The punishment was not dished out by the Government of the Seven Stars but instead one of the independant planets who's leader was drained. 

And Regulations are not the same as taxes. 

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#27 [url]

Sep 11 16 12:19 PM

I get that you like his comics Mars - I do

but what he's putting up in that comic isn't a strawman, then I'm not quite sure what constitutes one - or maybe we are using different definitions? The entire comic is basically a chick tract for him trying to present a case for evolution being bunk and that you'd have to twist the universe up so much to make it happen, that it would break reality. Here on the wiki we take the piss on all kinds of comics that push idiotic political and SJW notions all the time.

hell, there are even reviews of bad religious creationist webcomics - this isn't any different. We make fun of those, why not make fun of this?

See here:
http://www.rhjunior.com/the-probability-bomb-16/ - he presents evolution as something that "just happened"
Now, the academic in me takes affront to people who miscarcterize science - and the theory of evolution is quite well supported with a shitload of evidence. But RHJ doesn't care for that. His bible says a wizard did it.

his grasp on the bio-chemistry that underlies life is also either really poor, or he willfully misrepresents that as well:
http://www.rhjunior.com/the-probability-bomb-25/ - "water and oxygen is bad for organic life"
http://www.rhjunior.com/the-probability-bomb-26/ - or here where he tries to present the notion that just because we don't know with 100% certainty what the conditions where when life came about on earth, then it clearly can't have been any kind of abiogenesis that led to evolution. Nope, clearly god did it.

Then RHJ presents the evil church of nihilists - he doesn't even really say why they're evil or what they really believe in. We're just told they're evil and shown that they have a big fleet of space ships. Piss poor writing if there ever was any.
http://www.rhjunior.com/the-probability-bomb-38/

then we get a couple of pages explaining RHJ's young earth/universe creationism - where RHJ is used what I guess is 10 minutes on wikipedia and google to disprove modern astronomy, geology,
http://www.rhjunior.com/the-probability-bomb-46/
http://www.rhjunior.com/the-probability-bomb-47/
Lets take these from the top:
- he claims that spiral arm galaxies should have 'blurred' into solid disks. He just says they should have. What evidence? Who needs it. I think basically all astro-physists would just facepalm and shake their heads at this claim. In fact, I know they would, because I know what a centrifugal force is.
- decaying isotopes in earth's crust on various layers. He apparently can't entertain the idea that there used to be more of them in the past - and a lot of them have very long half-lives.
- next up he claims that earth's oil deposits couldn't exist if they're millions of years old, since the pressures they existed under should have meant that the oil should just have seeped into surrounding rock ages ago. Does RHJ think that crude oil exists in the underground in pure clean blobs that are just sucked up and poured straight into barrels? And there can't possibly be water or other fluids in the surrounding rocks, nope, none at all.
- next RHJ explains why he doesn't understand the water cycle or organic chemistry.
This bunch of slides here explains most of why RHJ is wrong on the point of oceanic salinity: http://www.oberlin.edu/faculty/swojtal/SFWpage/161Stuff/161Lect9/sld008.htm (the TL:DR is that there's more than just evaporation in clouds going on)
- then RHJ touches on the moon's distance to earth and the thickness of dust on the lunar surface. Again RHJ fails to comprehend the simple truth that the moon used to be a lot closer, and that at one point it will simply fly off (but that wont happen for a while) - and the lunar dust builds up exceedingly slowly, plus solar radiation can cause dust to float off into space: http://www.space.com/23694-moon-dust-mystery-apollo-data.html
- earth's axis spin and "magnetic field decay", which shows that RHJ missed the wikipedia page that talked about earth's magnetic field fluctuating and how it has actually flipped its poles in the past. But according to RHJ that's clearly not what's happening, instead its the earth's magnetic field that simply going away.


Look, with bad webcomics like gynostar, Escape From Terra, or Assigned Male, we all make fun of both the comic and cartoonist for presenting a world view that is twisted and wrong. What RHJ is presenting here isn't any different. Hell, I already linked another comic review from the wiki that covered a creationist webcomic.

never mind the politics he also handwaves into the comic. Not a bad thing on their own, but its just more stuff he can soap box over, making his main characters even greater mary sues
http://www.rhjunior.com/the-probability-bomb-13/ - apparently RHJ's furries are naturally libertarian. Because that's how god made them.
http://www.rhjunior.com/the-probability-bomb-44/ - and his utopic government can apparently pull money out of its ass on command, because sci-fi utopia


Look, I've said this over and over: I like RHJ's comics when he's not getting political - or at least manages to weave it into the plot of the story in a way that makes sense. His Probability Bomb is the other way around: Its a comic built entirely around him wanting to scream and shout about his political/religious thoughts on how wrong evolution is, and how insane anyone who supports the notion of evolution must be.

even poking around on RHJ's comic forums revealed that the comic pages where he presents 'evidence' for young earth creation were very much intentional from RHJ's end to push young earth creationism. Plus he doesn't consider it "snarking against science" but thinks of it as some kind of glorious presentation of 'uncomfortable facts' to an 'ideological camp'. He thinks the 'evidence' he presented in the comic is real and factual. http://www.rhjunior.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3800#p152150

How is that any different from SJWs saying that all men are racist and that white privilege is real because they believe in it. The SJWs we make fun of all the time here, picking apart their piss-poor arguments and making fun of them.

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MarsFire

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#28 [url]

Sep 11 16 7:39 PM

You are getting much too revved up for this.

It's clear you don't care to hear what he has to say, so I recommend you stop reading his works. Bad Webcomics Wiki is about Bad Webcomics. Camp Calomine was handled accordingly by pointing out that it's art was not that good all the time, the characters were flat and the humor was right leaning usually and there was a squandering of potential. It was not reviewed because the beliefs expressed were right leaning. This site is not about making fun of creationists and their webcomics. If an Evolutionist made a bad webcomic that just spouted everything that Evolutionists believed and said that anyone who said so otherwise was bad, then we would review it as a bad webcomic.

If you want to do a review of The Probability Bomb, go ahead. But do so because you believe it's a Bad Webcomic and point out the things about it's art, story telling, characters, plot and few minor things that make a bad webcomic a bad webcomic.. Don't do it because it's Creationist leanings triggered you.

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#29 [url]

Sep 11 16 8:12 PM

MarsFire wrote:
You are getting much too revved up for this.

It's clear you don't care to hear what he has to say, so I recommend you stop reading his works. Bad Webcomics Wiki is about Bad Webcomics. Camp Calomine was handled accordingly by pointing out that it's art was not that good all the time, the characters were flat and the humor was right leaning usually and there was a squandering of potential. It was not reviewed because the beliefs expressed were right leaning. This site is not about making fun of creationists and their webcomics. If an Evolutionist made a bad webcomic that just spouted everything that Evolutionists believed and said that anyone who said so otherwise was bad, then we would review it as a bad webcomic.

If you want to do a review of The Probability Bomb, go ahead. But do so because you believe it's a Bad Webcomic and point out the things about it's art, story telling, characters, plot and few minor things that make a bad webcomic a bad webcomic.. Don't do it because it's Creationist leanings triggered you.

Dude, chill man... The problem with comics that have leanings is if they present said leanings as the truth. Heck, just look at the threads for Dumbing of Age or Strong Female Protagonist if ya beleive there is a bias... They are getting fricking destroyed there for their "only my beliefs are right" mentality and pandering.

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#30 [url]

Sep 11 16 11:13 PM

Oh I know - I post in the SFP thread. Good times.

I just figured I needed to explain, thoroughly. And from the looks of it then Mars still doesn't get it either: Dude, a bad webcomic can be more than bad art and wasted potential. It can be ludicruis politics and piss-poor soap-boxing. RHJ's work is rife with it, even if not all his comics are equally mired in it all the time. That is something I get the impression that you do not get.

...and you say that I don't want to hear what he has to say. I have heard what he said. I found it demonstrably wrong, and I found that he believes it whole-heartedly. That makes him demonstrably wrong.

As for doinga review on the comic? its only 40-some pages in. It won't be done any time soon - and I'm sure there'll be more lulz to be had from it. Though, compared to his other work then it does appear as if it will end eventually - I'll wait with a review until then, unless it gets a lot stupider before that

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Shan

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#31 [url]

Sep 11 16 11:53 PM

Same process applies for every comic. Someone pitches a candidate, if there's a preliminary go ahead given, then a draft version gets submitted and it either gets approved or not.

If not, it's usually had modifications recommended and that process takes as many cycles as it takes before approval of addition to the site. It's uncommon for an outright rejection of a draft though it can happen.

So the same thing will happen with The Probability Bomb if someone goes ahead, let's just see what gets submitted and discuss it first.

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Long Tom

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#32 [url]

Sep 12 16 3:36 AM

webkilla wrote:
Oh I know - I post in the SFP thread. Good times.

I just figured I needed to explain, thoroughly. And from the looks of it then Mars still doesn't get it either: Dude, a bad webcomic can be more than bad art and wasted potential. It can be ludicruis politics and piss-poor soap-boxing. RHJ's work is rife with it, even if not all his comics are equally mired in it all the time. That is something I get the impression that you do not get.

...and you say that I don't want to hear what he has to say. I have heard what he said. I found it demonstrably wrong, and I found that he believes it whole-heartedly. That makes him demonstrably wrong.

As for doinga review on the comic? its only 40-some pages in. It won't be done any time soon - and I'm sure there'll be more lulz to be had from it. Though, compared to his other work then it does appear as if it will end eventually - I'll wait with a review until then, unless it gets a lot stupider before that

The big problem with your review of Camp Calomine-and why I ended up deleting a large part of it- was because basically you put words into RHJ's mouth (and which was not related to the actual webcomic).  For one you said he hated non-Christians, and linked to an article in which he mocked Wiccanism as a genuine religion-which is not the same thing.  You don't have to be a Christian to laugh at Wiccanism (which I didn't seen done in Camp Calomine).  RHJ did laugh at the meat-is-murder crowd...and you don't have to be a right-winger to do that.

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