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Shan

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#41 [url]

Jan 1 17 7:37 PM

UglyHyena wrote:

Shmeckie wrote:
Inserting yourselves into it just makes it sad...

*snort* Hahahhahahahehehe!
IMO I think the PSAs and healthcare tips they include can be actually useful.

SO, are we pulling the trigger on this one as being advertisements masquerading as a webcomic (among other things)?

The PSAs and public health advice can be mentioned as a plus point - given that the BWW also gets some traffic which then goes on to end up being a decent source of referrals to other sites for some time, like even years later - we'd also be helping to spread some important health messages just that bit further. I'm quite serious about this. 

I guess this means I'll have to read it now, though as this is like my field (public health generally, that is.)

I also was meant to be doing that anyway in a response to plarblman, so I'm also going to start a general thread for that.

Which is now here:

http://badwebcomicswikiforum.yuku.com/topic/879/master/1/#.WGnHzFV97IU

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#42 [url]

Jan 2 17 2:14 AM

sounds like a plan

One thing you'll have to do if making a review of the comic, is to go through most of their journal posts and whatnot - and the comic itself - to see if they've ever addressed the 'accusation' of being advertising pretending to be a comic.

Sure, they have a few nice PSAs - but 


the weird thing to me is that the cartoonist behind the comic used to have a comic about her comming to terms with being a FtM trans person (IIRC) but where she ultimately 'chose' to not transition, because she seemed to recognize that it just wasn't medically possible... IIRC - its been a while since I've read that comic.

my point about the weirdness is simply that the first comic was all about her coming to terms with her sexuality - about her experimentation, about her family, her love-life... so going from there to a webcomic that is 95% native sex toy advertising is a big leap.

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Shan

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#43 [url]

Jan 2 17 2:31 AM

Just reread this thread to remind myself (I've actually commented in this thread before!) and I've seen enough.

Who wants this one? I'll be happy to contribute a medical section on the quality of their medical advice.

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Shan

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#46 [url]

Jan 2 17 8:45 AM

Pink Rabbit wrote:
It's a Sex ED comic that also talks about new sex toys (with occasional guest comics), does it really warrant a review?

How well it conveys that information is worth discussing. I suspect there something about the structure of at least some of these that could be done better but I'll leave that to the artists among us.

I just read the section on HPV which has a couple of surprising omissions from a medical point of view, one in relation to sex toys actually.

I think depending on adjudications and/or group consensus, maybe even a null score/not applicable review at least on the content side if that's what the majority report concludes would be warranted because this could be an opportunity to funnel a bit more traffic to them and educate a few more people as a result. This is our chance to be responsible civic citizens! (for real this time!)

Plus, like I also said, the structure of the art and how it conveys information is worth a mention as this is legitimately important. I had to actually study health information as it pertains to poster construction and from what I've seen of the medical ones, I can't quite shake the feeling that some of it is a bit off in terms of optimising information delivery.

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#48 [url]

Jan 6 17 9:34 AM

Here is her old webcomic: http://www.darcomic.com/

The trans thing I recalled was wrong - it was her going through a period of "I'm a lesbian now! I'm a bisexual now! No wait, I don't feel like either - I want to be a special snowflake, so I'll say I'm just 'queer' now!"

The final page of the comic actually sums up the comic oddly well

You see, Erika doesn't "feel" bisexual - but she is married to a man she apparently loves - because she still feels too lesbians to be bi...

your special snowflake alarm should have gone off at some point during this

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Shan

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#49 [url]

Feb 24 17 7:05 PM

I want to make this a collaborative effort because I'm not so good at a lot of these areas. As a team, we can make this better than me on my own by playing to our respective strengths. 

Here's what I was thinking of going for.

Also, we can have some fun with with this because it's not entirely serious (you'll see why below.) I also see this as the next step of our evolution, into a valuable public resource more generally than just fighting the scourge of unregulated webcomics.

{| style="color: White; background-color: #003366;" class="wikitable"
|'''Original review author:'''
|
|-
|'''Webcomic name:'''
|
|-
|'''Author:'''
|
|-
|'''Start Date:'''
|
|-
|'''End Date:'''
|
|-
|'''Genre:'''
|
|-
|'''Defining Flaw:'''
|
|}
------ '''Rating Summary'''
{| style="color: White; background-color: #003366;" class="wikitable"
|'''Art:'''
|[[File:Wiki.png|70px]]
|-
|'''Storyline:'''
|[[File:Wiki.png|70px]]
|-
|'''Characters:'''
|[[File:Wiki.png|70px]]
|-
|'''Miscellaneous Details:'''
|[[File:Wiki.png|70px]]
|-
|'''Overall:'''
|[[File:Wiki.png|70px]]
|}

------
==Background== 

==Downfall== 

image

(OK, we're going with the Fair Use Law here - not to mention an important public health interest.)

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/22/urban-myth-that-lesbian-women-dont-need-pap-smears-is-a-health-risk-study

Drawing from the above link:

"An “urban myth” that lesbian women do not need pap smears because they do not have sex with men means they are putting their health at risk, a study from the University of Sydney has found."

Oh, they didn't specifically mention that. Never fear, we're here.

"While women most commonly acquire HPV through sex with a man, it can can also be transmitted through genital skin-to-skin contact, or sex toys, making pap smears important for LGBTQ women as well."

Oh wait, they didn't mention sex toys at all either.



image


==Story and Plot== 

==Art review== 

==Writing review== 

==Author biography== 

==Conclusion== 

Look, we may be being a bit tongue in cheek here (on a side note ...seems like a good place for it ...) They themselves say 
HPV is a doozy of a subject!We tried our best to consolidate as much information for you, but there’s still plenty of learning to be done at Planned Parenthood and Scarleteen.and generally with any of their topics - and generally with any reference ever, not to just stop with what they say but to keep researching and look at other sources. We wholeheartedly endorse that approach.

So remember your take home messages are, even if you're a gold star lesbian (or even right up to nuns [http://www.obgyn.net/obgyn-nurses/nuns-virgins-and-spinsters-rigoni-stern-and-cervical-cancer-revisited] it's not completely unheard of) , it's not entirely impossible to catch HPV that can lead to cervical cancer so keep that in mind when talking to your doctor.

And for god's sake, if you absolutely must share your sex toys - make as sure as you can that you wash them properly first before sharing.

This has been a public service announcement from the Bad Webcomics Wiki. We take comprehensive accuracy very seriously.

==Links==

(Well, that's the gist of what I was going for. I thought we could have some fun with this and be useful and informative at the same time.)












 

Last Edited By: Shan Feb 24 17 7:30 PM. Edited 1 time.

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plarblman

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#50 [url]

Feb 24 17 7:12 PM

If you wanted to collaborate you're better off doing it on a wiki page than a forum page. Harder to do edits this way.

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Shan

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#51 [url]

Feb 24 17 7:36 PM

plarblman wrote:
If you wanted to collaborate you're better off doing it on a wiki page than a forum page. Harder to do edits this way.

That's just my initial proposal pitch to show where I'm going with this (in between posting the template and editing in the part I'm best suited to do is when you posted - so it's changed from what you saw which was not demonstrating what I was going with.)

If this gets a go-ahead on its basic premise, I could create an article on the main wiki and then we can all work on it there like you suggested.

(My sandbox is currently occupied with a review which I will get up to snuff one day soon.)

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Shan

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#52 [url]

Feb 24 17 7:46 PM

In fact, Mr Plarblman, sir. I do believe you are a Wiki moderator. So if you go ahead and give me direct permission in response to an explicit request, I'll get started on it straight away and create a page with the above (plus some refinements and additions.)

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Shan

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#53 [url]

Feb 24 17 8:49 PM

OK, for some reason, it's not letting me modify my original post with the image being referred to - that seems to be broken. Here's what the "Downfall" is referring to (crudely modified to keep things SFW.)

image

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Shan

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#54 [url]

Feb 24 17 8:59 PM

OK, one more thing which I think is worth a section on any review if it eventuates which could also be both useful and educational is this:

I did go to the licencing page and saw this:

License

More and more of you have been wanting to post Oh Joy Sex Toy comics onto your social networks and websites, which is a wonderful compliment, but not great for us– if we don’t protect how our images are used, we lose the copyrights to them and we lose money when they’re reposted off our site.

On this page we’re laying out what exactly you can do with our comics and when you need to get in contact.

What can I post online for FREE and without contact?

You are welcome to post and distribute links to Oh Joy Sex Toy.
You can use ANY of the Oh Joy Sex Toy thumbnail Preview images, worry-free. (Right-click, “view image” to see full size)
You can use ANY of the Oh Joy Sex Toy banner images.
If you must post a tiny crop of the comic (though we prefer that you don’t), post “ohjoysextoy.com” ON THE ACTUAL IMAGE.

What must I email and PAY for?
If you want to post any of the comics on Oh Joy Sex Toy (whether it be social media or website), you MUST email Matthew and be prepared to pay a fee for a one time license.
If you want to print, or use the comics on Oh Joy Sex Toy in a way not described on this page, you MUST email Matthew to discuss exactly what you intend to do. Please be prepared to pay to use our works.

Woops I already posted it, what do I do?

If you don’t have a license, remove the comic! Replace it with a free preview graphic and email Matthew, there’s a chance you will have to pay for the time the comic was live on your site!
We love making our comic and want to keep making it. By ensuring you check in with us before posting any of the comics, you ensure we get the chance to protect our work and continue we get paid for doing it.

Now a lot of people slap "Fair Use Law" on things when it clearly isn't (see YouTube for example) but here's a question ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

1. Purpose and character of the use[edit]
The first factor is "the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes." To justify the use as fair, one must demonstrate how it either advances knowledge or the progress of the arts through the addition of something new.

...

Likewise, the noncommercial purpose of a use makes it more likely to be found a fair use, but it does not make it a fair use automatically.[10] For instance, in L.A. Times v. Free Republic, the court found that the noncommercial use of LA Times content by the Free Republic Web site was not fair use, since it allowed the public to obtain material at no cost that they would otherwise pay for.

------>

Now, this does tick the educational box and non-profit box, not the transformative box (I think) but also, this is currently material you don't have to pay for on the original site.

Plus, also.

"Examples of fair use in United States copyright law include commentary, search engines, criticism, parody, news reporting, research, and scholarship."

Now, legal's not my thing, so anyone with connections to that side of things that can make a determination - I think it would make a good section on this review and as a general section as well.

I guess one of my questions is, even though they wrote that on their website, it might not be enforceable. For example, my Helicopter Underwater Escape Course had if I remember this correctly a section which specifically stated they weren't liable for your injury or even death even if it was due to their negligence but even I knew at the time (and later saw confirmed somewhere else) that there's no way that would stand up in court.

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Shan

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#56 [url]

Feb 25 17 1:56 AM

There's a logic behind such a strategy, some people at least would read that and just automatically pay up.

On the flipside of such a principle, the "We're not liable." disclaimer, even though unenforceable in a court of law in many circumstances, does lead to people erroneously thinking they can't take legal action as a result.

So, there's definitely a method to all this. Anyway, once we have as clearly a defined statement as we can get (I believe in the cases of 'transformative' works - which this use would not be - is a bit fuzzier. This comes under educational and review purposes, though I think - which is generally clearer.) that could be an additional educational point we could include in the review about legal stuff.

What we call the Fair Use Law ... well, what can be done in other jurisdictions other than the US varies but since this is a US thing, that side of things shouldn't be an issue.

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plarblman

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#58 [url]

Feb 25 17 10:01 AM

I would air on the side of safety and go with the first set of criteria, we don't know how litigious they are or how willing they'll agree to our definition of educational. We can work with cropped images for the sake of reviewing, most reviews don't use whole pages anyway. Even if we did have a case for fair use, we don't have a lawyer and it's probable that the host would take it down in our stead.

Also, in response to your earlier question, you can go ahead with starting with a template, but as always we'll discuss the quality of the draft before it gets added to the review index.

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SmashLampjaw

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#59 [url]

Feb 25 17 2:28 PM

A license (or some other legal agreement) is necessary for using someone else's work when your use is not covered by Fair Use. They have fuckall control over how their images are used in criticism (one of the five explicitly named exclusions under Fair Use), which is our site all over. They also have no idea what they're talking about. For example...
.

Shan, quoting the site wrote:
More and more of you have been wanting to post Oh Joy Sex Toy comics onto your social networks and websites, which is a wonderful compliment, but not great for us– if we don’t protect how our images are used, we lose the copyrights to them and we lose money when they’re reposted off our site
This is absolute bullshit. You lose trademarks by not defending them. Copyrights can be enforced selectively and at-will. The most famous example of someone fucking someone over with selective enforcement was Fox with their movie rights (copyrights can even be subdivided!) to The Watchmen. They didn't bother to act until just before the movie was ready for distribution.
.
Shan, quoting the site or Wikipedia? wrote:
"Examples of fair use in United States copyright law include commentary, search engines, criticism, parody, news reporting, research, and scholarship."
The five explicitly named uses from the ruling that created Fair Use are satire, parody, educational use, government use, and criticism.
.
Shan wrote:
I guess one of my questions is, even though they wrote that on their website, it might not be enforceable.
They can say whatever they want on their website. They aren't the federal legislature or the supreme court.
.
plarblman wrote:
I would air on the side of safety and go with the first set of criteria, we don't know how litigious they are or how willing they'll agree to our definition of educational. We can work with cropped images for the sake of reviewing, most reviews don't use whole pages anyway. Even if we did have a case for fair use, we don't have a lawyer and it's probable that the host would take it down in our stead.
There is no chance they will find a lawyer to take that case. Our site is obviously criticism, but beyond that we don't make any money from our work and we're not going to repost the entire content of their site. So there's no wiggle room for them to either show damages from select-reprinting or undue profit (even though we legally could make money from it because criticism is protected).

I don't know how much money they make from their site, but I don't see them being willing to piss away thousands of dollars to lose in court, in the hopes they can intimidate critics.

.


Issues composing posts in Yuku's editor?  See this guide to using BBCode.

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Shan

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#60 [url]

Feb 25 17 2:33 PM

Well then, kids. Shall we do this thing? I went back and read all the comments in this thread yesterday? Between all of us, there's enough to cobble together something for every section. I can start with a template and the stuff I know about plus some placeholder stuff for the rest and then the rest of you who want to jump in can fill in the rest.

​(Rereads plarblman's post more closely this time - will go ahead and do this thing - was looking at shrinking that page and editing it down anyway for structural reasons anyway as it is kind of big. Was already thinking the exact same thing about draft template first and seeing if it either goes main page eventually or even deleted if no good and unsalvageable - hopefully the former, not the latter.)

Last Edited By: Shan Feb 25 17 2:37 PM. Edited 1 time.

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