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Nate

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Dec 17 16 4:57 AM

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Willis isn't saying that churches are required to give charity, in fact that's the opposite of what he is saying. What he's saying is that churches should help the most marginalized and oppressed members of society, but they don't. They're hypocrites. Which, depending on the church, is fair and accurate criticism. 
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SmashLampjaw

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#1 [url]

Dec 17 16 10:02 PM

Nate wrote:
Willis isn't saying that churches are required to give charity, in fact that's the opposite of what he is saying. What he's saying is that churches should help the most marginalized and oppressed members of society, but they don't. They're hypocrites. Which, depending on the church, is fair and accurate criticism. 
Oh wow, a Willis-related strawman argument. Giving money to people who live in opposition to your beliefs would be hypocrisy.

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Nate

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Dec 18 16 3:46 PM

You're talking about a religion founded by a man who stood up for tax collectors, criminals, and prostitutes. If your religion commands you to aid the most vulnerable and maligned members of society and you refuse to do so then you are a hypocrite. 

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#3 [url]

Dec 18 16 5:24 PM

Nate wrote:
You're talking about a religion founded by a man who stood up for tax collectors, criminals, and prostitutes. If your religion commands you to aid the most vulnerable and maligned members of society and you refuse to do so then you are a hypocrite. 

Didn't they sorta start following him after he helped them?

So should people convert to a religion after said religion helped them? If a protestant church gives money to a homeless gay person, should he stop being gay and convert to christianity?

Aren't there specific organizations for queer people anyway?

And what about organizations that only help a specific group of people? Are organizations that protect animals hypocrites because they don't help people? What about the ones who help children or women or people with a specific disability? Shouldn't they just help everyone?

Man, I'm confused.

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Shan

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Dec 18 16 6:08 PM

UglyHyena wrote:

Nate wrote:
You're talking about a religion founded by a man who stood up for tax collectors, criminals, and prostitutes. If your religion commands you to aid the most vulnerable and maligned members of society and you refuse to do so then you are a hypocrite. 

Didn't they sorta start following him after he helped them?

So should people convert to a religion after said religion helped them? If a protestant church gives money to a homeless gay person, should he stop being gay and convert to christianity?

Aren't there specific organizations for queer people anyway?

And what about organizations that only help a specific group of people? Are organizations that protect animals hypocrites because they don't help people? What about the ones who help children or women or people with a specific disability? Shouldn't they just help everyone?

Man, I'm confused.

There's a difference between organisations that specialise in an area because that's their area of expertise and an organisation that both specialises in an area while actively agitating against another. For example, you're not (usually) going to see the local human medical clinic both asking you to bring your pets to them instead and launching a press and/or legal campaign against the nearby veterinarian. There's also the issue of limited resources, so everyone usually does and should stick to what they're best set up for on top of the fact that everyone can only do so much.

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Shan

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Dec 18 16 7:44 PM

UglyHyena wrote:
So churches actively try to take down queer charities? That's low.

Strange. I did reply to this but it seems that my answer has disappeared. Well, let's try again.

I was just referring in general as to why I thought what was being discussed and the examples you brought up were different. I don't specifically know offhand of any examples of exactly that happening. I can't say it ever hasn't happened either, though.

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SmashLampjaw

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Dec 19 16 10:29 AM

Nate wrote:
You're talking about a religion founded by a man who stood up for tax collectors, criminals, and prostitutes. If your religion commands you to aid the most vulnerable and maligned members of society and you refuse to do so then you are a hypocrite.
Oh good, more strawman attacks. Last I checked, the Catholic church viewed even thinking of a sinful act as the equivalent of committing it, so I am having a great deal of difficulty not seeing you as making a sad, inept attempt to troll Christians in the middle of the DoA thread. Please cite scripture that explicitly commands people to financially enable behavior they see as sinful or drop your shitty trolling and move on.
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UglyHyena wrote:
So churches actively try to take down queer charities? That's low.
I haven't heard anything about that, but a few years ago GLAAD did try to take down the Salvation Army over their predictable stance against gay marriage. They managed Target to stop letting the Salvation Army collect to feel the poor in front of their stores.

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Last Edited By: SmashLampjaw Dec 19 16 10:34 AM. Edited 1 time.

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plarblman

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Dec 19 16 10:56 AM

Honestly, it's bad enough when we have politics discussions in webcomics threads that get heated. We don't need to add religion on top of it. I suggest you two take this to a different thread if we're going to have an argument that goes any deeper than Willis getting objective statements wrong.

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Shan

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Dec 19 16 11:14 AM

Well, when that thread's ready, let me know because I have some ammunition not sourced from a hay bale ready to throw into the mix.

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kyrtuck

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Dec 19 16 11:46 AM

ohitsyou wrote:

Fun fact: I took an elective gay history course in college, and I had a Gay proffesor say multiple times that being gay is a choice. I wonder how Willis would react to that statement?
 


You sure Mr. Gay Professor didn't mean "expressing one's sexuality is a choice" as opposed to the sexual orientation itself being a choice?

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Nate

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Dec 19 16 12:07 PM

UglyHyena wrote:

Nate wrote:
You're talking about a religion founded by a man who stood up for tax collectors, criminals, and prostitutes. If your religion commands you to aid the most vulnerable and maligned members of society and you refuse to do so then you are a hypocrite. 

Didn't they sorta start following him after he helped them?

So should people convert to a religion after said religion helped them? If a protestant church gives money to a homeless gay person, should he stop being gay and convert to christianity?

Aren't there specific organizations for queer people anyway?

And what about organizations that only help a specific group of people? Are organizations that protect animals hypocrites because they don't help people? What about the ones who help children or women or people with a specific disability? Shouldn't they just help everyone?

Man, I'm confused.

I think you answered your own question. Jesus helps people first, no strings attached, and then they decide to follow him. The desire to follow Jesus comes from the compassion he shows people who have been deemed unworthy of help. The parable of the Good Samaritan is perhaps the most famous example of this. 

It is not hypocritical for organizations to focus on helping people with special needs if that is their stated goal.

There are a hundred lines of attack you can take on Willis that will stick. His criticism of the protestant church as a Members-Only Club for right wing bigots is not one of them. The only time this comic feels remotely genuine is when Willis is writing about Joyce and her crisis of faith, since that's the only part of the story where Willis is writing from direct personal experience. If he cut the c-d-e-f-g plots about the lives of LGBTQ and bi-racial college kids, a topic that he barely comprehends and by his own admission is too lazy and careless to do serious research into, then the comic would be infinitely more authentic and relatable. Instead we get cringe worthy garbage like this latest scene between Robin and Leslie, in which two lesbians (as written by a sexually repressed 37 year old straight guy) have an irreverent dialogue about their propensity to not suck lady dicks, pee pee doo doo Steven Universe. It's fuckin awful. 

Last Edited By: Nate Dec 19 16 1:58 PM. Edited 3 times.

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ohitsyou

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Dec 19 16 4:22 PM

kyrtuck wrote:

ohitsyou wrote:

Fun fact: I took an elective gay history course in college, and I had a Gay proffesor say multiple times that being gay is a choice. I wonder how Willis would react to that statement?

 


You sure Mr. Gay Professor didn't mean "expressing one's sexuality is a choice" as opposed to the sexual orientation itself being a choice?

Pretty sure, yeah.

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SmashLampjaw

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Dec 19 16 9:16 PM

Nate wrote:
It is not hypocritical for organizations to focus on helping people with special needs if that is their stated goal.
Yes, it's a huge shame the unnamed charities who are supposedly claiming to follow your incredibly abstract version of Christianity might not be following it to the letter. On the flipside, you're a hypocrite for not demanding they stone gays to death like Leviticus tells them to, since you're getting triggered they're not acting closely enough to their beliefs.

Tell me something: An inactive member with a low post count reappears the week of Christmas, and mysteriously starts Christian-bashing in two threads. The majority of his posts are all along the same lines. Would you call this person an obvious troll or a blatantly obvious troll?

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Last Edited By: SmashLampjaw Dec 19 16 9:18 PM. Edited 1 time.

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Long Tom

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Dec 24 16 11:12 AM

Lt Art Major wrote:
Christianity was founded by a neckbeard who couldn't swim.

He started off life as a carpenter, or (according to some sources) a general laborer, so swimming wouldn't have been a required skill for him.

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#19 [url]

Dec 24 16 1:03 PM

Long Tom wrote:
Lt Art Major wrote:
Christianity was founded by a neckbeard who couldn't swim.

He started off life as a carpenter, or (according to some sources) a general laborer, so swimming wouldn't have been a required skill for him.

The joke is that Jesus walked on water bc he couldn't swim, which tbh I kinda found funny.

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plarblman

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Dec 24 16 8:03 PM

tfw you learn that Jesus was the original JoJo (his name can be constructed as Joshua ben Joseph. Coincidence? I think NOT!). Maybe all those miracles were the work of his stand, [Stairway to Heaven].

...I'm going to hell for that, aren't I?

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