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Shan

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#21 [url]

Jan 11 17 1:32 AM

SmashLampjaw wrote:
I still find the idea of a comic about us bizarre.
.
Shan wrote:
The thing is, the brand name of The Bad Webcomics Wiki is ... just a bit toxic in some quarters. That might be a bit of a crimp of business plans and future involvement.

Nobody likes real criticism. If our "brand" isn't toxic we've probably failed.

Well, I have the go ahead from the man upstairs. He says he misses having missed the days of when the site did things like ​this. I guess I should have asked him at the time what this is.

​It's not so much about us but about what we do. We could pack up shop and leave and ... well, nothing would really change in the world but let's suppose .. what if it did? What if what we did was the most important thing in the whole world? I'd like to think that despite how that last sentence sounds, it's actually that we don't take ourselves too seriously. I'm really planning to amp up the whole disaster/apocalyptic nature of the whole overall scenario. As for how webcomics (the bad ones that is) could be an existential threat, well I've got something in mind that hopefully can get away with explaining that in halfway credible fashion in the context of the story.

​I don't subscribe to the theory that you have to make something to criticise it but I just thought it'd be fun. izzus wrote a section and there's potentially other segments by other people we can plug in to the overall story.

​Now as for the part about 'toxicity'. Interesting thing I've noticed in a number of different threads separated by time (years even) and places (Comic Fury, Smackjeeves, TV-Tropes, Deviant Art, and so on) is that they all seem to go the same way. Some people who hate even the idea of this place but then some people who say some reviews have some good points/many points/validity and they enjoy reading them/learned from them and there's definitely a benefit for some kind of criticism and some sort of place that does reviews. There's even some introspection about people's own criticism of others and whether they could have handled it better when these threads about the BWW spring up.

​So, typically, I find all these threads seem to end up with the same mix of discussions. I don't think I've ever seen one which is purely 100% shut the BWW down. I'm not saying they don't exist, just that I've never found one as of yet.

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SmashLampjaw

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#22 [url]

Jan 11 17 10:25 PM

I'm neither telling you to stop making this thing nor able to do so. I've just noticed you have this strange fixation with making BWW more marketable/reputable/whatever. As far as I can tell, you showed up here with said fixation.

My issue with that is the --let's say mindset-- that you approach writing a review from impacts how it turns out. Kind of like how the medium is the message, the main goal you're shooting for impacts the review as you're heading there. If you're trying to write a review that is insulting and entertaining, you're not going to sugarcoat things, water things down, or cut down how many problems you found to avoid coming off too mean. Personally, I want the insulting things I write to be opinions based on facts, which is why my reviews tend to be less entertaining than others'. Contrariwise, if you're writing a review to be respected, you're going to be concerned with your image or popularity, you start trying to write reviews that are more "balanced" than the material deserves. You may even do dumb shit like openly admit you won't criticize Willis because you don't want your own comic blacklisted because he's popular.

Cruelty is the price of accuracy. Hence why we mainly review the worst of the worst instead of just trashing any webcomic that happens to be popular. They have to earn it.

.


Issues composing posts in Yuku's editor?  See this guide to using BBCode.

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Beardfist

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#23 [url]

Jan 13 17 2:23 PM

While I think those are certainly valid concerns, I don't feel that things necessarily need to be one or the other. Biting, cruel, even at times sadistic criticism can still earn you a good deal of respect--just from certain people, alongside the disdain and aversion of the majority. If the points you make are strong, centered, and focused on real problems, people who're able to stomach the stuff (read: not giant pussies) stand to learn a good bit, or just be entertained. I think that a webcomic drenched in satire can keep in line with that approach--blacklisting be damned, if it still chugs along for the esoteric base of people who enjoy the shit. There's no reason that the comic couldn't employ the same biting, uncompromising, insulting wit (though obviously, I have no idea if the scripts do). And even if they are more moderated, so long as they aren't sparing punches, I don't see a complete violation of what the site's philosophy is.

More than anything, I think if this comic were to wander into any of those questionable realms of behaviors, you've got plenty of people around here who wouldn't hesitate to call it out in a heartbeat. Given that the whole thing's also sortof an in-joke goofy side project, I also don't think there's much a danger of it being watered down to appeal to the sort of shit-eating mainstream we tend to mock on the regular 'round these parts.

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Shan

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#24 [url]

Jan 14 17 6:23 PM

SmashLampjaw wrote:
I'm neither telling you to stop making this thing nor able to do so. I've just noticed you have this strange fixation with making BWW more marketable/reputable/whatever. As far as I can tell, you showed up here with said fixation.

My issue with that is the --let's say mindset-- that you approach writing a review from impacts how it turns out. Kind of like how the medium is the message, the main goal you're shooting for impacts the review as you're heading there. If you're trying to write a review that is insulting and entertaining, you're not going to sugarcoat things, water things down, or cut down how many problems you found to avoid coming off too mean. Personally, I want the insulting things I write to be opinions based on facts, which is why my reviews tend to be less entertaining than others'. Contrariwise, if you're writing a review to be respected, you're going to be concerned with your image or popularity, you start trying to write reviews that are more "balanced" than the material deserves. You may even do dumb shit like openly admit you won't criticize Willis because you don't want your own comic blacklisted because he's popular.

Cruelty is the price of accuracy. Hence why we mainly review the worst of the worst instead of just trashing any webcomic that happens to be popular. They have to earn it.

Working my way down the list.

​1. I wouldn't be doing this if oddguy said I couldn't or hadn't specifically said I could. It was my guess that he's the closest thing to this place was to having an owner. Hence the posting the question and hanging about hoping to get word from him. Having said that, it's also dependent on the rest of the people in charge of running this place as well. People aren't necessarily going to differentiate between this project and the site itself, so anything I do with this has to try its best to meet the standards this site promotes. Associated with that is plowing ahead with this over the objections of the people who run the main site would be remarkably antisocial and unpleasant behaviour, not to mention staggeringly narcissistic.

​Corollary to this, this is actually a good thing. One of the big advantages of webcomics and web publishing in general (everything from books to even movies) is that the barrier to publication has been greatly reduced. Many people are getting opportunities including that first breakthrough they otherwise wouldn't have in many cases (a lot of people have stories about being rejected by the regular channels and then making it through online means.)

​However, as we all know, one of the big disadvantages is that there's much less of a barrier to publication as well. That barrier did serve a purpose in terms of quality control. Now all sorts of stuff is getting out that really shouldn't have but we especially knew that here. It's very easy to get very self-indulgent and not only not police yourself but be very closed off to criticism, hence a lot of things that could have been much better (and more that never would be good) gets out there as a result.

​This is good, though. Having the impramitur of the actual Bad Webcomics Wiki on a webcomic comes with responsibililty. I have to at least try and make this as good as possible. I can't just publish any old rubbish under this banner, I've got to take the lessons learned here and try to make this as good as possible. So it's a good way to police myself and keep this is check (reminder, this isn't just my thing, it's going to be there for anyone else who wants to pitch in.) So tying that into whether people can 'stop' me or not. If the people who make the decisions here aren't happy with what you're doing, it might just be worth paying attention to what they're saying and adjust accordingly. It's also good at a more base level to be what it is because it can hardly have the same name as a site that is critical of webcomics for not meeting their update schedules and other basic things like functional site features if it's not doing so itself either. So, I hope it's keeping me honest in that most basic department on top of everything else.

​2. I didn't show up here to optimise this place's action potential, so to speak. Some webcomics (specifically Misfile, I think) led me here and then here led me to some other places. And it's been fun. I've met some people I otherwise wouldn't have and we've done a whole bunch of projects already (my 'talent' such that it is seems to be the whole behind the scenes logistics thing.) So it's more a case of coming back here from that and just saying it's fun to shake things up a bit by trying to do different things on top of this. So among other things, that's what this is for anyone who wants to. I mean, there's even other webcomic creators (some who may or may not have featured here) even helping me out with this thing.

​I'm not under any delusion that this is going to be a great work of art or that I've cracked the webcomic code that every single previous one has failed to do. I mean, apart from this thread, there's no mention of this thing elsewhere. I mean I could have run some Project Wonderful ads and listed on Top Webcomics as well as dropped some mentions on Comic Fury and the like (you know, look at me, I've got this webcomic) but I'm not even thinking of doing that until this meets the definition of a proper webcomic. I could have even saved money by actually hosting on Comic Fury (which also would have gotten a bigger audience) but I an't see how that would look like anything but trolling, so I didn't.

​3. Funny you should mention Dumbing of Age (or in the vicinity of, at least.) The same day (but before you posted), I was rereading your Dumbing of Age review again. I think we actually agree on that point, though it may not look like it to third parties reading the forums. I take the view that what's done here is not trolling (as has been the accusation of this place on occasion) because criticisms made here are not just a statement made, it's backed up with reasoning for the arguments made and attempted reviews that make these statements but whose arguments aren't good enough or absent won't make it. Harsh but fair is ... well, fair in my opinion. I may be no good at it myself (for a myriad of reasons) but it doesn't mean I'm against it.

 

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Shan

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#25 [url]

Jan 14 17 6:27 PM

Beardfist wrote:
While I think those are certainly valid concerns, I don't feel that things necessarily need to be one or the other. Biting, cruel, even at times sadistic criticism can still earn you a good deal of respect--just from certain people, alongside the disdain and aversion of the majority. If the points you make are strong, centered, and focused on real problems, people who're able to stomach the stuff (read: not giant pussies) stand to learn a good bit, or just be entertained. I think that a webcomic drenched in satire can keep in line with that approach--blacklisting be damned, if it still chugs along for the esoteric base of people who enjoy the shit. There's no reason that the comic couldn't employ the same biting, uncompromising, insulting wit (though obviously, I have no idea if the scripts do). And even if they are more moderated, so long as they aren't sparing punches, I don't see a complete violation of what the site's philosophy is.

More than anything, I think if this comic were to wander into any of those questionable realms of behaviors, you've got plenty of people around here who wouldn't hesitate to call it out in a heartbeat. Given that the whole thing's also sortof an in-joke goofy side project, I also don't think there's much a danger of it being watered down to appeal to the sort of shit-eating mainstream we tend to mock on the regular 'round these parts.

Much shorter version of my previous post. Because The Badwebcomics Wiki is critical of bad technique and bad logistics, any webcomic with the name "The Badwebcomics Wiki: The Webcomic" better do its best to ... not have bad technique and bad logistics.

​I also agree with all this on the proviso that if you're critical of something (in this case webcomics), back up your arguments by making your case after you give your criticism.

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Shan

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#26 [url]

Feb 21 17 12:38 AM

New page on Monday 27th of February (just loaded and scheduled it myself, so that's definite.)

One of our greatest antagonists surfaces ...

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Shan

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#28 [url]

Mar 1 17 5:33 AM

... and we're knocking it out of the park with the viewing figures.

image

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Shan

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#30 [url]

Apr 23 17 6:29 AM

New page up.

This project is evolving. This page actually has multiple panels, dialogue and the suggestion that there might just be an arc of some sort. Before you know it, it might even be appearing at a rate of more than one page a month.

Not quite yet, though. The next page is scheduled for the 29th of May.

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Shan

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#31 [url]

Apr 26 17 8:35 PM

Here's where the audience has been coming from up to now.

1.imageUnited States 2.imageAustralia 3.imageCanada 4.imageBrazil 5.imageUnited Kingdom 6.imageNorway 7.imageArgentina 8.imagePoland 9.imageRussia 10.imageSouth Africa 11.imageGermany 12.imageFrance 13.imageItaly 14.imageMexico 15.imageNetherlands 16.imageSweden 17.imageAustria 18.imageFinland 19.imageHungary 20.imagePhilippines 21.imagePuerto Rico 22.imagePortugal 23.imageRomania 24.imageSingapore 25.imageThailand 

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Shan

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#32 [url]

Apr 26 17 8:39 PM

1.Sydney41(16.27%)14.63%6(3.37%)31.71%3.7800:09:390.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
2.Coffeyville17(6.75%)100.00%17(9.55%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
3.Boston14(5.56%)100.00%14(7.87%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
4.Silver Springs Shores9(3.57%)66.67%6(3.37%)0.00%3.5600:00:240.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
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6.Hamilton6(2.38%)33.33%2(1.12%)83.33%1.6700:00:500.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
7.San Jose6(2.38%)100.00%6(3.37%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
8.(not set)5(1.98%)60.00%3(1.69%)20.00%3.0000:09:430.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
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30.Houston2(0.79%)100.00%2(1.12%)50.00%2.5000:00:100.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
31.Redmond2(0.79%)50.00%1(0.56%)50.00%2.5000:00:150.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
32.Milwaukee2(0.79%)50.00%1(0.56%)0.00%4.0000:00:560.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
33.Palm Beach Gardens2(0.79%)100.00%2(1.12%)0.00%4.0000:00:430.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
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44.Vancouver1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%4.0000:01:390.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
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63.Amstelveen1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
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65.Angeles1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%4.0000:00:510.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
66.Zielona Gora1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
67.Warsaw1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%4.0000:01:560.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
68.Lisbon1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%13.0000:05:180.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
69.Cluj-Napoca1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%6.0000:02:150.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
70.Singapore1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%4.0000:00:220.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
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73.Birmingham1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%2.0000:06:170.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
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75.Tucson1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
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78.Altamonte Springs1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%8.0000:00:360.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
79.Hudson1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%5.0000:01:110.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
80.Ocala1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
81.St. Petersburg1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
82.Chicago1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
83.Olympia Fields1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%6.0000:01:040.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
84.Orland Park1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%5.0000:00:080.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
85.Valparaiso1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%6.0000:00:460.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
86.Brockton1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%3.0000:00:550.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
87.Cornelius1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%4.0000:00:230.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
88.North Bergen1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%2.0000:00:200.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
89.Reno1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
90.Buffalo1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%6.0000:00:470.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
91.Merrick1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%3.0000:00:400.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
92.Loveland1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%4.0000:00:570.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
93.Chouteau1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%2.0000:00:560.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
94.Sparta1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%7.0000:01:290.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
95.Cedar Park1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%6.0000:00:350.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
96.Dallas1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
97.Denton1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
98.Huntsville1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%4.0000:00:340.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
99.Longview1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%6.0000:01:200.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
100.Nacogdoches1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%7.0000:00:390.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
101.Plano1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
102.Burke1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%5.0000:05:520.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
103.Haymarket1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
104.Bellevue1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
105.Longview1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%9.0000:00:490.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
106.Oshkosh1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%3.0000:00:150.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
107.Nelspruit1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
108.Votuporanga1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
109.Saint-Germain-les-Corbeil1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%4.0000:00:480.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
110.Grand Blanc Township1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
111.Jasmine Estates1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%5.0000:00:360.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
112.Rotterdam1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%4.0000:00:280.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
113.South Euclid1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)0.00%4.0000:01:220.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
114.San Juan1(0.40%)100.00%1(0.56%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)

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Shan

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Posts: 1,964

#33 [url]

Apr 29 17 9:06 PM

... and here's where all our referral traffic comes from. No surprises about the top one as it's literally the only place I mentioned it. How about that one at the bottom of the list, though?

 
 
135% of Total: 50.94% (265) 72.59%Avg for View: 70.57% (2.87%) 98% of Total: 52.41% (187) 22.96%Avg for View: 40.75% (-43.66%) 3.76Avg for View: 3.18 (18.29%) 00:01:59Avg for View: 00:02:42 (-26.57%) 0.00%Avg for View: 0.00% (0.00%) 0% of Total: 0.00% (0) $0.00% of Total: 0.00% ($0.00) 
1.badwebcomicswikiforum.yuku.com111(82.22%)70.27%78(79.59%)9.91%4.3200:02:140.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
2.free-fb-traffic.com6(4.44%)100.00%6(6.12%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
3.duckduckgo.com3(2.22%)66.67%2(2.04%)33.33%2.0000:01:120.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
4.e-commerce-seo1.com3(2.22%)100.00%3(3.06%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
5.ecommerce-seo.org3(2.22%)100.00%3(3.06%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
6.l.facebook.com3(2.22%)100.00%3(3.06%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
7.motherboard.vice.com3(2.22%)0.00%0(0.00%)66.67%1.3300:02:360.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
8.e-commerce-seo.com2(1.48%)100.00%2(2.04%)100.00%1.0000:00:000.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)
9.google-liar.ru1(0.74%)100.00%1(1.02%)0.00%2.0000:07:490.00%0(0.00%)$0.00(0.00%)

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Shan

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Posts: 1,964

#34 [url]

May 31 17 3:42 PM

New page went up on Monday, May the 29th. Closing in on that 6 months minimum threshold. That 50 or so pages minimum not so much.

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Jerry

Casual User

Posts: 35

#35 [url]

This is looking great! I haven't been on the forum for a while, so coming back to see that the comic is finally starting up is great news!
Is the Homestuck bit going to be an arc or something? Either way, I feel sorta inadequate now that this has happened; I should start getting into the bad webcomics groove again.

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Shan

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Posts: 1,964

#36 [url]

It's both an arc and coming to a gripping conclusion next week. Small steps with both the size of the arcs and the update schedule for now from the walk don't run school of thought.

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