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SmashLampjaw

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#21 [url]

Jan 13 17 10:23 AM

Shan wrote:
That's an effect, not a cause.
It may well be a feedback loop.
.
Melonhead wrote:
As for Rational Wiki, it was created to make fun of the Right wing politics and media; though it does have SOME common sense.
Common sense? All they did was make a sales pitch for using a new term in place of "racism", on the grounds that isn't as immediately recognized as illogical when you claim only white people can be it. That may be tactical but it's still irrational.

That said, I struggle to believe they weren't originally created to mock religious people. Whenever atheists congregate on the internet, they pick some name related to intelligence for their group (e.g. "The Brights"), then they shit on religion while talking philosophy and science. The nature of what they mock (e.g. whether or not it deserves it) and their approach to talking logic tends to be determined by if they became atheists from introspection or as a substitute for self-esteem (the fedora-wearing crowd). Going by what oddguy said, they started out mocking religious extremists then the political crap came later, probably with the arrival of the aforementioned low self-esteem, I'm-smarter-than-most-of-the-world-because-of-one-belief-I-have fedora-wearing crowd.

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Last Edited By: SmashLampjaw Jan 13 17 10:29 AM. Edited 1 time.

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Shan

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#22 [url]

Jan 13 17 10:29 AM

On the subject of oddguy, thanks looking back on this this review because of this thread, I discovered he has a Twitter and youtube account and it's amazing! ...

(Turns out I also added something to the review when it was first posted - with permission - and I'd totally forgotten about that too.)

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plarblman

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#24 [url]

Jan 13 17 1:53 PM

AFAIK, it ceased to be primarily about games journalism within a year that it started. Whether you can say it "ended" or simply "expanded focus" is a matter of debate; just looking on KiA and there's topics on the mainstream press, academia, etc. Though I did spot a few games related links.

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Beardfist

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#25 [url]

Jan 13 17 2:02 PM

The people that got together from it still congregate, but it's shifted towards a more overtly-political thing. Its core was plainly focused on video games and the problems faced by a press and establishment filled of non-gaming culture critics who were limp-dicked (and specifically limp-dicked against abuses by indie devs and AAA studios). However, once this core started to push back against what it saw as endemic corruption, the specific parameters of that attracted all sorts of people who... don't really have anything to do with gaming (and some, at times, stated their outright disdain for the hobby). Some of the named-notables were Sargon, Mercedes Carerra, Mister Metokur/Jim/Internet Aristocrat, Chris Ray Gun, Milo Yiannopolous, post-conversion IMC, Christina Hoff Sommers, etc. That's sortof where the thing has, as a whole, drifted--it's more of a nexus of generally anti-sjw activity with a flavored focus on gaming. As far as it being an active movement in the way it was, well, it's made some attempts to get panels and shit at events--but let's be real; no one gives a shit, and the instant they do that, the screeching idiots flood in their way and start threatening the event hosts. Nobody want to deal with that shit.

For all intents and purposes, it's just something that people loosely identify themselves with. By contrast, the loons that were on the opposite side as still plugging along strong and hard in their effort to be taken seriously while churning out shit games like Depression Quest or Sunset. And there's an easy, obvious reason for it: lots of patreon pitybucks from rich, guilt-laden layabouts who appreciate the message of 'mediocrity is beautiful' coming from the hambeast brigade. Word is that ZQ is making some moves to hop on the transtrender bandwagon, even. While I personally couldn't give a shit less about anything that nutter does, you can be sure that the smatterings of communities around 8chan and kia will have a rather loud group of hooting and hollering mongoloids getting their panties in a tiff over it.

There is some real-world relevancy in terms of legal precedent that could come from ZQ-Gjoni's court case--and some striking questions about the fact that the van Valkenburg family absolutely flooded lawyers with money to try to bury the case, but they deal more with the US legal system's awful faults than anything. One can also argue that GG was and is a sortof 'vanguard' in the pushback against left cultural hegemony, even if most people (rightly) don't give a fuck about a single thing that they've accomplished. They may have helped to bleed gawker enough for Hogan to take it out, at least.

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#26 [url]

Jan 13 17 2:40 PM

Beardfist wrote:
By contrast, the loons that were on the opposite side as still plugging along strong and hard in their effort to be taken seriously while churning out shit games like Depression Quest or Sunset.

Wasn't Depression Quest the one that kickstarted this whole mess in the first place? Dear me, who would have said such a terrible game would have such an impact?

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#27 [url]

Jan 13 17 2:59 PM

SmashLampjaw wrote:

Melonhead wrote:
As for Rational Wiki, it was created to make fun of the Right wing politics and media; though it does have SOME common sense.

Common sense? All they did was make a sales pitch for using a new term in place of "racism", on the grounds that isn't as immediately recognized as illogical when you claim only white people can be it. That may be tactical but it's still irrational.
 

True that we're struggling with a catch all term for those who put themselves over everyone else, so caught up in their conformity that everything that challenge it is a threat to their existence. Elitism comes to mind, but some (if not most) of the elitists were actually well accomplist people, (as opposed to those who came from a wealthy line of assholes).

With that said, they're not on the deep end of the political spectrum, but they do indeed mock "/pol/tards" from time to time. 
UglyHyena
Beardfist wrote:
By contrast, the loons that were on the opposite side as still plugging along strong and hard in their effort to be taken seriously while churning out shit games like Depression Quest or Sunset.

Wasn't Depression Quest the one that kickstarted this whole mess in the first place? Dear me, who would have said such a terrible game would have such an impact?

I think the Zoe Post is what started the 5G:B&F drama that lead to GamerGate.

Last Edited By: Melonhead Jan 13 17 3:31 PM. Edited 2 times.

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Shan

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#28 [url]

Jan 13 17 3:07 PM

Is any of this part of the sequence of events in dispute? (Courtesy of Wikipedia.)

"In August 2014, Eron Gjoni, Quinn's former boyfriend, published the "Zoe Post", a 9,425-word blog post that quoted from personal chat logs, emails, and text messages to describe their relationship. The post, described as "a rambling online essay" in The New York Times,[7] complained, among other things, that Quinn entered a romantic relationship with Nathan Grayson, a journalist for the Gawker Media video game website Kotaku.[8][9][10] The post was linked on 4chan, where some erroneously claimed the relationship had induced Grayson to publish a favorable review of Depression Quest. Grayson had never reviewed Quinn's games and Grayson's only article for Kotaku mentioning her was published before their relationship began.[11][12][13][14][15] Gjoni later updated his blog post to acknowledge this.[12]"\ "

​The game was released 18 months prior to this. It says she received hate mail in this period of time and that she had to change her phone number and screen calls.

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plarblman

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#29 [url]

Jan 13 17 3:11 PM

UglyHyena wrote:

Beardfist wrote:
By contrast, the loons that were on the opposite side as still plugging along strong and hard in their effort to be taken seriously while churning out shit games like Depression Quest or Sunset.

Wasn't Depression Quest the one that kickstarted this whole mess in the first place? Dear me, who would have said such a terrible game would have such an impact?

Honestly, the game itself had very little to do with it. I still remember three years back when people were talking about the Zoe Post and thought, "well sure it's unprofessional not to disclose ties to your subject matter, but everyone knows Kotaku is a garbage rag so why bother?" I'm sure there were plenty of people who thought likewise. It wasn't until the other outlets decided to villify gamers as a whole that GG really got its start. Because the smart thing to do is to call your audience irredeemable garbage over something that most of them were likely not involved in. In either case, text reviews for games were on their way out anyway, and this was just the death knell for them.

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SmashLampjaw

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#30 [url]

Jan 13 17 3:46 PM

Melonhead wrote:
True that we're struggling with a catch all term for those who put themselves over everyone else, so caught up in their conformity that everything that challenge it is a threat to their existence. Elitism comes to mind, but some (if not most) of the elitists were actually well accomplist people, (as opposed to those who came from a wealthy line of assholes).
It is difficult, definitely. I think the problem with coming up with a name isn't so much because of accuracy. While you have one group of people who want to identify people whose power comes from abusing others invisibly or through some system, you have a louder group of bigots who want to claim all white people and all men are guilty by association to said power group (who aren't all white/male and who give zero shits about white people / men). So no matter what name you think of there's a very active group of people waiting to misuse it very publicly and very frequently.
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BeardFist wrote:
Everything
That's possibly the best description I've ever read on the matter that also managed to be concise.

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Shan

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#31 [url]

Jan 13 17 3:54 PM

Gawker really hasn't been taken out, though has it? Gawker Media had its name changed to Gizmodo Media (not many people seem to know it was Gizmodo, not Gawker that was the first of the blogs - also Gizmodo was still by far the one that got the most traffic) and or after sale to Univision and Jezebel seems to have taken over running the articles that Gawker did (there was already a lot of overlap in the type of content) with anything they don't going to one of the others or to one of the sub-blogs (The Slot, Concourse etc.)

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Beardfist

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#32 [url]

Jan 13 17 4:19 PM

ZQ and the 5guys saga was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it was overall unimportant. The wikipedia page for GG is notoriously worthless, as it's constantly in a revision war between the two sides (to point: anytime something is changed, on either the gg or agg reddits, there's always 2-3 threads addressing the change). Essentially, while Depression Quest was never given positive ~reviews~, it was mentioned in articles that had almost nothing to do with it. IIRC, it also got awards and namedrops in other places that it absolutely did not merit, and ZQ was pushed as a "game dev" left and right despite making a CYOA series of html pages with an insane person's rendition of what depression is like. The post essentially revealed the incestuous network that people had suspected existed, but from that point on ZQ became a peripheral concern of the GG thing. Some people obsessed over her, true, but there was a reason she's one of the Literally Whos. Some of the minor sagas that ZQ got involved in that did mobilize people against her, though, were !) the Wizardchan debacle: she essentially went after a forum of people who were actually depressed because they found her 'game' insulting and childish; 2) the Fine Young Capitalists saga where she tried to shut down the funding and blacklist a massive fundraiser gamejam project, itself intended to get ->more<- women involved in the creative process of amateur game devving--all because they accepted money from people who were pro-GG; and 3) the Gjoni lawsuit, wherein she basically jammed a restraining order against Gjoni on trumped up sexual assault/abuse charges with her parents' money (she comes from enough dough to afford a team of $700/hr lawyers that normally represent international corporations)... and then, when he was filing appeals, tried to have the whole thing thrown out so she wouldn't be liable for lying to the court (or, at the very least, slander and libel). There have been other things, like her and Sarkeesian popping up at all sorts of trendy tech companies and the United Nations to whine about how someone called them fat on the internet once, but those three were the main things that incensed people against her. But, again, she really isn't that important to the shitstorm after the first few days even.

As to the timeline, it's essentially the Gjoni and her go back and forth for a while, she rings him around, makes him want to kill himself (his testimony, anyway, though he isn't the first to suggest something like that regarding her), and when he finally breaks away and airs out the dirty laundry, many of the accusations are indirect (Grayson was one of I think 2 named out) and moreso suggesting that 'these conflicts of interest should have been revealed, and she's getting more coverage/attention for the game than it at all merits.' Both her and the other LWs have claimed harassment a gorillion times, but have yet to show a shred of evidence or even a police report, iirc. At one point, she even claimed she had to 'leave her home because she was so afraid' when in reality she was just on holiday in Europe. While I don't doubt that she got a good bit of harassment from trolls, she has herself a nasty tendency to try to get people to kill themselves and pull together rings of people to harass people out of the indie/reviewing industry.

Moreso, people started to prune through the network of contacts that the post suggested, and found all sorts of ties and connections between the gaming press, review ceremonies, and indie developers. Preferential treatment in awards, contests, and festivals, PR campaigns that simultaneously consult an indie developer and its reviewers/judges, all that stuff. To smokescreen the lid being blown off of their actions, they rolled out the 'gamers r sexist!' thing and essentially made a campaign of suggesting that video games couldn't possible be art because there wasn't one about a black transsexual whirling nonbinary demisxual dervish queen, all while pushing awful garbage devs and games. The "Gamers are Dead" debacle involved a gorillion outlets, all from different publishers, shooting out the exact same article within 2-3 days as if no one would notice. Essentially, GG was 'resolved' when many websites said they would update old articles with conflicts of interest notifications and 'be stricter going forward.' Whether or not one sides with GG, generally no one even bothers to look at gaming journalism shit anymore because youtube exists and has proven itself more trustworthy. (And competent--if anyone remembers the infamous 'Polygon plays DOOM' video.) These incestuous devs and reviewers have been slowly dying off, along with the garbage clickbait journalism that provided for their worthless asses to live in ritzy neighborhoods and blow tons of money while writing about how they don't actually like playing video games.

GG's main downfall in all this was simply... caring too much. Spending the time reading about shit as much as I could, I found myself wondering how this shit had stretched out over a year, much less carried on in effect until Gawker's death. Most of the events happened over the course of a few months to half a year or so, and their resolutions came pretty quickly. The only people really affected by it were the ones working in the industry that had to keep their hands down, and the GGers who were assaulted to streams of threats that they actually had proof of. (As opposed to Wu, who showed her mastercraft in storytelling by making up innumerous stories she couldn't keep straight.) Eventually when the opportunists rolled into politicize it, many GGers ~already~ had too high of an opinion of themselves and got strung along by idiot after idiot.

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oddguy

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#34 [url]

Jan 18 17 2:12 PM

Shan wrote:
On the subject of oddguy, thanks looking back on this this review because of this thread, I discovered he has a Twitter and youtube account and it's amazing! ...

(Turns out I also added something to the review when it was first posted - with permission - and I'd totally forgotten about that too.)


hahaha no it isn't
it's a fucking disgrace

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Shan

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#35 [url]

Jan 18 17 2:21 PM

oddguy wrote:

Shan wrote:
On the subject of oddguy, thanks looking back on this this review because of this thread, I discovered he has a Twitter and youtube account and it's amazing! ...

(Turns out I also added something to the review when it was first posted - with permission - and I'd totally forgotten about that too.)


hahaha no it isn't
it's a fucking disgrace

Something can be both a fucking disgrace and amazing, Chief.

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kyrtuck

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#36 [url]

Jan 25 17 8:43 PM

To be honest, I'm surprised this thread was made, since the Gamergate movement itself has become more useless and inane than Wrong Turn sequels.  Even GGL's author, Kuku de Clown has been scraping by on far off tangents, like Hulk Hogan suing Gawker into Oblivion.....really, why on earth did he make a strip on that!?

I'm annoyed at GG personally, because nearly all the GG people I find are horrible self righteous dumbasses making claims as ridiculouis as "videogames are the last medium untouched by censorship" or "there was no gaming controversies before Anita".  

And somehow, I have yet to find these mythological Gamergate haters.  The gamergate ED article only disses the haters, and not GG itself, which is highly unusual for ED.  Or tumblr, seriously, type in Gamergate in the search box, and you'll find nothing but pro-Gamergate material on there.  TUMBLR!!!!

Just my dinky two cents on the subject. 

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plarblman

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#38 [url]

Jan 26 17 1:47 PM

kyrtuck wrote:

And somehow, I have yet to find these mythological Gamergate haters.  The gamergate ED article only disses the haters, and not GG itself, which is highly unusual for ED.  Or tumblr, seriously, type in Gamergate in the search box, and you'll find nothing but pro-Gamergate material on there.  TUMBLR!!!!

 

It's probable that the people who are anti-gamergate simply don't use the gamergate tag on tumblr. Either that or, being three years after the fact, very few people still talk about it to begin with.

However, if you tried a google search instead, particularily in the news tab, you'll find lots of news articles still talking about "gamergate, a harrasment movement against women" still being made to this day. 

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