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SmashLampjaw

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#21 [url]

Jun 6 17 2:36 PM

Crap, I misread one of the earlier posts. You're not supposed to write a review until the comic's approved for it. I thought you were just throwing things in your sandbox to make the case for reviewing this thing. I mean it has a good chance of getting approved but so you know that's not normally how this happens.

@Shan - People do NOT write a review in their sandbox and then make a case for it being a review on the forum afterward. That's going to waste people's time if the comic is too unknown, short, or not awful enough to get reviewed. You've been here long enough to know that. Why did you tell this guy to just write a review one post into the thread?

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#23 [url]

Jun 6 17 3:04 PM

SmashLampjaw wrote:
Crap, I misread one of the earlier posts. You're not supposed to write a review until the comic's approved for it. I thought you were just throwing things in your sandbox to make the case for reviewing this thing. I mean it has a good chance of getting approved but so you know that's not normally how this happens.


 

I didn't think making a review in the sandbox was a thing I shouldn't do yet. I thought it was actually making a review page that I couldn't do first.

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SmashLampjaw

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#24 [url]

Jun 6 17 3:58 PM

ColonelKlink wrote:
I didn't think making a review in the sandbox was a thing I shouldn't do yet. I thought it was actually making a review page that I couldn't do first.
It's not some kind of complex breach of rules or something. It's just if the comic itself doesn't even get approved, your review won't get used even if it's good.
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Shan wrote:
3 days ago. http://badwebcomicswikiforum.yuku.com/reply/20168/Rain#reply-20168
I was talking about this and this. You leaped right into talking about writing a review. It's confusing. You should have stressed it's approval first, review second, not "do you want to write the review, and here's how it'll maybe get included." Again, it's not like we're extremely formal or would report him to the Central Bureaucracy for Breach of BWW Code 14.11.6b. It's just doing things in the wrong order may result in a massive waste of effort that scares off a new reviewer.

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#25 [url]

Jun 6 17 5:15 PM

I had fun making the review, it doesn't matter if it doesn't get posted. I'll just copy the source if you want it gone so I can have something to show to people when they have the gumption to tell me that Rain is a good comic.

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Shan

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#26 [url]

Jun 6 17 6:03 PM

ColonelKlink wrote:
I had fun making the review, it doesn't matter if it doesn't get posted. I'll just copy the source if you want it gone so I can have something to show to people when they have the gumption to tell me that Rain is a good comic.

Things don't really work like that here. My understanding is that it's more like this. Looks like a bit of a discussion about initiating process needs to happen but that will be in the next post.

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SmashLampjaw

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#27 [url]

Jun 6 17 6:10 PM

Shan wrote:
Things don't really work like that here.
No? SSSS was discussed for weeks before getting rejected. Homestuck was discussed for years across two forums before getting accepted. There's a whole forum topic dedicated to getting a comic flagged for review.

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Shan

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#28 [url]

Jun 6 17 6:42 PM

SmashLampjaw wrote:

ColonelKlink wrote:
I didn't think making a review in the sandbox was a thing I shouldn't do yet. I thought it was actually making a review page that I couldn't do first.

It's not some kind of complex breach of rules or something. It's just if the comic itself doesn't even get approved, your review won't get used even if it's good.
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Shan wrote:
3 days ago. http://badwebcomicswikiforum.yuku.com/reply/20168/Rain#reply-20168

I was talking about this and this. You leaped right into talking about writing a review. It's confusing. You should have stressed it's approval first, review second, not "do you want to write the review, and here's how it'll maybe get included." Again, it's not like we're extremely formal or would report him to the Central Bureaucracy for Breach of BWW Code 14.11.6b. It's just doing things in the wrong order may result in a massive waste of effort that scares off a new reviewer.

From the top.

Post #2

I know this particular webcomic has a history out there in the interwebs, so that was just some reading material for anyone who was interested with any

OK, I did write "If you want to write the review on this one, here's a few places to see what people think." That was meant to mean *before* starting, not *do* start but point taken, I'll phrase it as "Before you start and do not take this as an indication to start" or words to that effect if this situation comes up in future.

Post #3

OK, I did realise that it could look like I said go ahead,

"Do you know how to make a review in your sandbox and also be aware that any review has to get moderator approval for inclusion into the Wiki itself for it can be put in."

as even thought I meant to indicate don't create an article in the Wiki, that could be taken as meaning make an article in the sandbox which is not what I meant as yes, I do know that you're not supposed to do that either without a clearly positive go ahead.

so I tried to walk it back with Post #8

"OK, one more thing, to extend on the not a mod thing, myself alone doesn't count as approval to go ahead yet. You've already put forward some points as to why this should be reviewed here. That could be enough in itself or there might be a request for further reasons. So, just keep an eye out for approval before you formally go ahead."

Which was meant to mean don't even write a review in the sandbox until you get a go ahead as I'm not a mod and can't grant that. This was meant to convey wait for approval in the sandbox so if this arises in future to remove all ambiguity, I'll make sure I state not to write an actual review without a formal go ahead.

However Post #9 happened and I do remember, I literally thought at the time, "Someone's jumped the gun." but at that point, well, it's already happened. And as Not a Mod, it's really not my place to say unwrite it now. I was expecting a clarification at some point by someone with mod powers and well, here we are, we got there eventually. So, chalk that up as a learning experience. No harm done by the Colonel, this is the BWW, not the State Department or the Pentagon.

Still, this is an issue independent of me that's been coming to a head for a while, so I'd like to request a discussion about this particular policy issue in the appropriate place at the appropriate time. So, over to you for that as Not a Mod.

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Shan

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#29 [url]

Jun 6 17 6:46 PM

SmashLampjaw wrote:

Shan wrote:
Things don't really work like that here.

No? SSSS was discussed for weeks before getting rejected. Homestuck was discussed for years across two forums before getting accepted. There's a whole forum topic dedicated to getting a comic flagged for review.

I just meant no-one's going to say Get Out and Take Your Review With You if something like this happens. This isn't the first time something's being created not following the expected blueprint and there's at least an attempt to see if what's been made can be salvaged along with In Future Do Things This Way Please.

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SmashLampjaw

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#30 [url]

Jun 6 17 7:54 PM

Shan wrote:
SmashLampjaw wrote:

Shan wrote:
Things don't really work like that here.

No? SSSS was discussed for weeks before getting rejected. Homestuck was discussed for years across two forums before getting accepted. There's a whole forum topic dedicated to getting a comic flagged for review.

I just meant no-one's going to say Get Out and Take Your Review With You if something like this happens. This isn't the first time something's being created not following the expected blueprint and there's at least an attempt to see if what's been made can be salvaged along with In Future Do Things This Way Please.
Yeah, and I'm still just saying if you're going to tell new people what to do, you should be stressing the process even if you're of the opinion it's optional. We try to get people to do things in order to keep them from wasting their efforts regardless of if some of them roll the dice and win.

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Shan

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#32 [url]

Jun 6 17 8:17 PM

SmashLampjaw wrote:

Shan wrote:

SmashLampjaw wrote:

Shan wrote:
Things don't really work like that here.

No? SSSS was discussed for weeks before getting rejected. Homestuck was discussed for years across two forums before getting accepted. There's a whole forum topic dedicated to getting a comic flagged for review.

I just meant no-one's going to say Get Out and Take Your Review With You if something like this happens. This isn't the first time something's being created not following the expected blueprint and there's at least an attempt to see if what's been made can be salvaged along with In Future Do Things This Way Please.

Yeah, and I'm still just saying if you're going to tell new people what to do, you should be stressing the process even if you're of the opinion it's optional. We try to get people to do things in order to keep them from wasting their efforts regardless of if some of them roll the dice and win.

Well, that's my point. I don't want to tell people anything if I can help it. It wasn't until I noticed this had floated halfway down the list before I posted on it. Sometimes the process works (Star Warriors) and sometimes we have a bit of a warp smash, case in point.

I really do want something written down somewhere where there's as little margin for error as possible and then any of us can if we have to just paste a link if we have to the relevant master thread or whatever. 

Anyway, that's what this thread's now going to be for, work out how we set about doing that in future to try and avoid precisely this.

http://badwebcomicswikiforum.yuku.com/topic/967/master/1/#.WTd9JWh97IU

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Shan

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#33 [url]

Jun 6 17 8:27 PM

ColonelKlink wrote:
I'm sorry if I ruffled y'all's feathers by jumping the gun in my ignorance.

You haven't. This place is a bit of an anarchic collective at the best of times. My experience (both direct and indirect) is that a webcomic is suggested and eventually there might be a general consensus that it's OK for a review to go ahead.

Sometimes like most recently Star Warriors it's clearly stated by a mod "Go ahead and start a review."

Other times, no-one ever clearly calls it outright but things have drifted to a point where it would seem to be that the impression that it's OK to go ahead, a draft is written and ultimately it gets turned into a review.

However, it's about time we had a discussion about how to formalise the process, or maybe more accurately how to make sure there's a clear outline that people can easily access about How Things are Done and that people can easily find (and know that they need to look for it first).

Well, this certainly helped push that along is what I'm saying. We haven't even got to the fun part where someone starts going through your draft with a red pen and starts writing notes in the margins.

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#36 [url]

Jun 6 17 8:38 PM

It wasn't about being friendly, it was about being magically being able to say what you produced was shit without making people mad by not changing the words used, but the color of them. No really, people were less angry if at all for being told that their handwriting was impossible to read and it looked like a chicken got ink on its feet and stepped on your paper. It's how I learned you can be brutal if you come up with some special way of making people not instantly shut you out despite you saying everything they endeavor for is fruitless because everything they touch turns to shit.

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Shan

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#37 [url]

Jun 6 17 8:45 PM

Believe me, as the self-appointed resident medical scientist here, I know how that all works and exactly why they did it. Anyway, once Smash has given his notes, I'm going to add mine about some things as well in my area of (relative) expertise.

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SmashLampjaw

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#38 [url]

Jun 9 17 1:34 PM

ColonelKlink wrote:
I'm sorry if I ruffled y'all's feathers by jumping the gun in my ignorance.
No harm done. I was more concerned about you not having your time wasted. Anyhow, here are the issues from what I've read. I'm leaving out spelling and grammar corrections because there will be time for that later.


Everywhere: You need more links. Especially in Story and Plot. Normally you could just link someone to the chapter where things you talk about are happening and trust them to navigate if they really want to see it, but this comic's published to dA. There's pretty much no navigation. If something is stupid or awful enough to mention, you should probably link to it (omitting linking to the same thing happening over and over of course).

Genre: I'm pretty sure this is a "slice-of-life" comic; that should be in there somewhere unless I am mistaken about it being slice-of-life.

Defining Flaw: Generally this should be one thing. If you're going to take artistic liberty to tell a joke, fine, but if you're not it should be one thing. The thing that made the comic totally unsalvageable.

Ratings summary: "Art" section only says the art never improves but doesn't say what it is. Even one word to describe the present state of things would be fine. "Story" maybe say what it progressed into; it's a bit vague. "Miscellaneous Details:" it looks like the first sentence needs something appended to the end to give it some context. Maybe "passed off as everyday Catholic school conversation" or something like that.

Background: "Random" is a little redundant; it gets used in two sentences in a row to describe the same thing.

Downfall: I suggest you lead with the point in the comic that sucked and link to the exact page (if there is one), then mention the Invader Zim thing afterward. You should also lose the part about "You may as well brace yourself for the comparisons" because you never mention Zim again after this section. Anyhow, my suggestion is:
It started to suck when Rain meets her improbable collection of LGBT students at the catholic school and forgets that they should all be social pariahs if discovered. They just go on as if everything is perfectly normal in the eyes of society. Especially at a catholic school because as we all know, catholic schools are just the most forward thinking, progressive establishments you can go to for an education. The story began to remind me of Invader Zim at this point. Nobody seems to notice the green alien in the classroom.


Story and Plot:
Paragraph 1 - I'd recommend making "Since we have 32 chapters of " the second sentence, as it explains the hectic delivery style of the rest of the first paragraph. You should also set up what you're not talking about; explain why things you didn't mention weren't worth mentioning.

Paragraph 2 - The "super paranoid about being discovered" bit is kind of redundant given it's word for word also at the beginning of the first paragraph. You seem to prefer a conversational writing style, so maybe swap that part out with something like, "So after the flashback, Rain's paranoia turns out to be unfounded as every guy" etc. etc.

Paragraph 3 - I'd go with "the rainbow characters" instead of "the rainbow people" because retards with ADHD sometimes read our reviews and will emotionally leap to the conclusion you're no longer only talking about the comic. This paragraph also rambles a bit. You should cut it down a little and make it more focused, so it'll lead into the next paragraph better. "The other 22 chapters don't really mean anything" makes it sound like there's no point in even bringing them up, but then you bring them up in paragraph 4 and make a pretty compelling case for having brought them up. I'd throw out the "don't really mean anything" part and change "just more of the same" to something like "mostly the same thing as before". Maybe split that sentence into two because it's a bit cumbersome.

Paragraph 4 - Sentence 2 and 3 trip over each other, and 3 is wordier than it needs to be. Maybe cut them down to, "Well let's go even faster until we hit the point where the story jumps the retard shark in chapter 26. That's a full 16 chapters ahead of now, and I bet I can sum up everything else of even relative consequence that happens fewer sentences than I have fingers." I'd also suggest starting a new paragraph at "Let's go!" and another new one at or after "And here we are,", because it'll make it clearer the new (short) paragraph 5 is your list of things.

Nobody knows who "alpha bitch" refers to because you've never mentioned her before. You should keep in mind when writing these reviews that, in addition to your reader not having read the comic before your review, the reader may also skip reading the comic because of your review. You can't assume they'll know what you're talking about unless you introduce things explicitly. Likewise, You should explain how Rain's sister acted like a douche-nozzle, given you later point out she took things a step further. The bit about "Words can't convey how retarded this scene was" is fine, but you should still say what happened prior to that sentence, because the act itself is describable (e.g. "Rain's sister gets disowned over a haircut").

Paragraph 5 - This sentence should probably appear earlier or not at all. Ending on the ridiculousness of the haircut shark jump is a stronger finish to this section.

Art Review: You should begin with why her art is bad. Get into how it has failed to improve after you've covered why it needs improvement in the first place. Again, remember you may be (and probably are) writing this for someone who's never even heard of the comic.

Writing Review:

Paragraph 1 - It's not unheard of to start a story with a flashback. The real issue here is it's idiotic to have what's clearly a prologue that involves a scene of the past presented as a flashback. The next panel after the "flashback" in flashback colors leads with "13 years later".

Paragraph 2 - I'd lose "because most of the time she spends a whole lot of time telling" from the first sentence because it's redundant. There's also only one way to fail at show-don't-tell so you don't really need to spell out how she did it. "IMVU" should be a link to whatever that means.

Paragraph 3 - Maybe change "football minutes" to "a football clock" to cut out a redundant use of the word "minutes". The bit on Bleach could also be trimmed down somewhat without changing your point.

Paragraph 4 - The "collect all the rainbow colors" bit should probably be "collect all the colors" since it's still obvious from the context what you're talking about. I'd lose the last sentence because pretty much everyone should already know what you're talking about by that point. Though if you did want to hammer home the point you could go with something like, "There's Gender Fluid, who shows up and angsts because of not being accepted outside the group and tumblr problems. Then there's Lesbian #2, who like Lesbian #1, shows up and angsts because of not being accepted outside the group and tumblr problems. And so on."

Author Bio: Paragraph 1 is kind of cumbersome, and you shouldn't explain why you didn't do something you wound up doing. That just makes it sound like you wrote the first paragraph, curiosity got the better of you, then you wrote the other paragraphs, and finally you jumped back and made a quick edit to the first one. The paragraph's logically inconsistent as it stands now. In fact, it might even be worth rewriting the entire Bio section based around your initial indifference to researching her that you got past when you stumbled onto her e-begging. Structure it a bit more clearly to pair up the things she asked for with the lack of any records or existence of contradictory records.

Conclusion: I'm really baffled by what you're trying to say here. I can't follow your meaning or tell how it relates to the comic. The first sentence doesn't say anything about what your opinion is, and sentences 2 and 3 are run-on sentences where it's hard to tell what's an observation and what's your opinion. I'd recommend leading with a short, clear declaration of what your opinion is. Elaborate in later sentences if needed, but make sure you tie your opinion to what you observed in the comic you reviewed.

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Last Edited By: SmashLampjaw Jun 9 17 1:45 PM. Edited 1 time.

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Shan

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#40 [url]

Jun 9 17 2:49 PM

ColonelKlink wrote:
Finally, the red pen is here. Thanks for being detailed in your issues with my review. Its hard to come by that on the internet. I will begin making corrections.

Believe me, it's worth it. Your stuff will be much better going forwards and you'll get much better at it.

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